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What happens when you turn your key on.
- Thread starter XSLeo
- Start date
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- Tags
- electrical technical
It is a diode and is used by the rear brake lining sensor. When the brakes wear enough the sensor turns a light on the dash on. Unless you are trying to win at shows for a 100% stock bike, just delete it. It doesn't really serve a purpose.
Leo
Leo
I'm not at the point where I'm ready to tie everything together yet, but this is a valuable reference. It's interesting that as described, the engine won't crank when the kill switch is in the "Off" position. As a much younger man I found myself in a seedy part of town on my '83 Shadow trying to find a club where Roy Buchanan was playing one evening. The bike dies at a stoplight. I'm cranking and cranking on the elect. start, but no joy. Folks are starting to notice me, I'm starting to wonder why I am where I am, and if I'm gonna make it out. Suddenly realized that the kill switch was in the "off" position(must have bumped it somehow coming to the stop). Flipped it to "run", hit the starter button, and was outa there. Never did find that club ...
On some years the starter would crank without the engine stop switch being in the run position. Other models of Yamaha are that way as well as many other bikes.
On my 75, that's the one I modeled this after was set up so the starter only worked with the engine stop switch is in run.
I kinda makes sense to be set up that way. You could crank the engine enough so the battery gets to weak if it will work without the engine stop in the run position.
Leo
On my 75, that's the one I modeled this after was set up so the starter only worked with the engine stop switch is in run.
I kinda makes sense to be set up that way. You could crank the engine enough so the battery gets to weak if it will work without the engine stop in the run position.
Leo
Street Tracker
Dirt Track Mentality
Thanks you for all of the major contributors you all know who you are excellent write up XSLeo you guys never seize to amaze me.
sickofitall
XS650 Addict
Thank you.
Pabeye
Older than Dirt
Very Helpful, THANKS Leo!
NorazDad
NorazDad
Thanks
Now get working on that lighting info
Can't get my directionals to do anything.
Peace All
Now get working on that lighting info
Can't get my directionals to do anything.
Peace All
Norazdad, Depending on the year of your bike the turn signals are pretty straight forward. The early years power from the key switch went to the flasher on a brown wire. From the flasher to the left/right switch, from the l/r switch to each side.
Dark green to the right side, Chocolate to the left.
Some years used two indicators on the dash, some just one. The two indicators were just wired one to each side. On the single indicator it was wired to both sides.
When the right side was flashing the indicator grounded through the left side, the current draw through the opposite bulb was enough to prevent the opposite side from flashing.
On the 78 they added the self canceling system. I'm not exactly sure how it works. The basic system is the same with a few changes. The turn switch, the lever self centers after you push it. There are several extra wires involved. The third wire on the flasher was changed to green/yellow, the switch has the brown/white. dark green and chocolate as well as a red/yellow and black. They added a reed switch in the speedo, as well as the self canceler unit.
My best guess on how it all functions is that when you push the turn button, power gets sent to the self canceler. This tells the canceler which lights to light and trips a latching relay. This starts a clock and reading the distance traveled by means of the reed switch in the speedo.
After a combination of time and distance traveled the self canceler grounds the circuit unlatching the relay, stopping the flashing. Or if you want to stop them earlier you can just push the button straight in.
Now onto your issue. If your turns light up but don't flash. This is most often a low voltage condition, as in not flashing when the engine is not running or at idle. This is sometimes corrected by cleaning all the connections in the circuits. Some times it can be your charging system isn't up to the task.
With all stock parts if they don't light it can often be a bad bulb or weak connections at the fuse. The stock round glass were crap when new and 30+ years haven't helped.
Swapping the stock fuses for modern blade type fuses is a very good upgrade.
One way to check this is check voltage at the flasher on the brown wire. It should be very close to battery voltage. I start these checks by turning on the key, then check voltage at the battery, this gives you actual voltage thing get in the operating mode. Now use this voltage as a base voltage. compare all your test voltages to this one.
If all the connections between the battery and where you test are in good shape your reading should be within a .2 or .3 of battery voltage I might let them get to .5 low but no less.
If the voltage on the brown wire is ok then make a jumper wire to jump from the brown wire to the brown/white. This bypasses the flasher. Try the turns, do they light? If so the flasher may be the issue.
If you have swapped the lights for after market, the bulbs in them are often 23 watt bulbs. The stock flasher is load dependent. It needs two 27 watt bulbs and the three watt indicator to work.
Check the bulbs them selves. If they are 23 watt bulbs they won't work with the stock flasher.
Easy fix, swap the stock three prong for a parts store two prong flasher. I can't recall if it's 552 or 522 but it's a good flasher and isn't load sensitive.
If you replaced the stock signals with LED then you will need an LED compatible flasher. I like the LF1-S-flat from www.superbrightleds.com It comes with the leads going to a plastic block. The leads can be removed from the plastic. Plug the red lead into the brown wire, the black into the brown/white wire of the stock flasher socket.
On the early bikes this is just fine, no real changes. On the later self canceling bikes this deletes the self canceler. No real problem, just have to learn to turn them off yourself.
Sometimes on the signal lights them selves the grounds can get weak. They ground through the body of the light. Where the mount bolt comes through, both front and rear there is a black wire with a large ring connector, it goes over the mount bolt under the nut. The other end of this wire has a bullet connector that plugs into the harness ground. A multiple female connector, one in the headlight bucket, one under the seat.
Clean bare metal to clean bare metal is a good ground.
Hope this helps.
Leo
Dark green to the right side, Chocolate to the left.
Some years used two indicators on the dash, some just one. The two indicators were just wired one to each side. On the single indicator it was wired to both sides.
When the right side was flashing the indicator grounded through the left side, the current draw through the opposite bulb was enough to prevent the opposite side from flashing.
On the 78 they added the self canceling system. I'm not exactly sure how it works. The basic system is the same with a few changes. The turn switch, the lever self centers after you push it. There are several extra wires involved. The third wire on the flasher was changed to green/yellow, the switch has the brown/white. dark green and chocolate as well as a red/yellow and black. They added a reed switch in the speedo, as well as the self canceler unit.
My best guess on how it all functions is that when you push the turn button, power gets sent to the self canceler. This tells the canceler which lights to light and trips a latching relay. This starts a clock and reading the distance traveled by means of the reed switch in the speedo.
After a combination of time and distance traveled the self canceler grounds the circuit unlatching the relay, stopping the flashing. Or if you want to stop them earlier you can just push the button straight in.
Now onto your issue. If your turns light up but don't flash. This is most often a low voltage condition, as in not flashing when the engine is not running or at idle. This is sometimes corrected by cleaning all the connections in the circuits. Some times it can be your charging system isn't up to the task.
With all stock parts if they don't light it can often be a bad bulb or weak connections at the fuse. The stock round glass were crap when new and 30+ years haven't helped.
Swapping the stock fuses for modern blade type fuses is a very good upgrade.
One way to check this is check voltage at the flasher on the brown wire. It should be very close to battery voltage. I start these checks by turning on the key, then check voltage at the battery, this gives you actual voltage thing get in the operating mode. Now use this voltage as a base voltage. compare all your test voltages to this one.
If all the connections between the battery and where you test are in good shape your reading should be within a .2 or .3 of battery voltage I might let them get to .5 low but no less.
If the voltage on the brown wire is ok then make a jumper wire to jump from the brown wire to the brown/white. This bypasses the flasher. Try the turns, do they light? If so the flasher may be the issue.
If you have swapped the lights for after market, the bulbs in them are often 23 watt bulbs. The stock flasher is load dependent. It needs two 27 watt bulbs and the three watt indicator to work.
Check the bulbs them selves. If they are 23 watt bulbs they won't work with the stock flasher.
Easy fix, swap the stock three prong for a parts store two prong flasher. I can't recall if it's 552 or 522 but it's a good flasher and isn't load sensitive.
If you replaced the stock signals with LED then you will need an LED compatible flasher. I like the LF1-S-flat from www.superbrightleds.com It comes with the leads going to a plastic block. The leads can be removed from the plastic. Plug the red lead into the brown wire, the black into the brown/white wire of the stock flasher socket.
On the early bikes this is just fine, no real changes. On the later self canceling bikes this deletes the self canceler. No real problem, just have to learn to turn them off yourself.
Sometimes on the signal lights them selves the grounds can get weak. They ground through the body of the light. Where the mount bolt comes through, both front and rear there is a black wire with a large ring connector, it goes over the mount bolt under the nut. The other end of this wire has a bullet connector that plugs into the harness ground. A multiple female connector, one in the headlight bucket, one under the seat.
Clean bare metal to clean bare metal is a good ground.
Hope this helps.
Leo
NorazDad
NorazDad
Thanks, you are a true Dude!
I was hoping you lived in Chicago so I could ride over and thank you personally. But let this suffice.
I know I was being a little cheeky, but I got the info I needed. Can't wait to digest it all and get these signals working. With a the rain we are getting, I will have plenty of time to work on the problem.
I should have properly introduced myself.
I bought a 1981 xs650H. Runs great...except turn signals.
New tires, sprockets 17/32, seat cover, hallogen headlight, bars, grips, cables.
Did the cam chain and valves.
Starter motor doesn't work...so what?
Will get on the signals and then switch to LEDs.
I look forward to tracing your past posts. 11,000+ will take some time, but I got time.
Thanks, Rob
I was hoping you lived in Chicago so I could ride over and thank you personally. But let this suffice.
I know I was being a little cheeky, but I got the info I needed. Can't wait to digest it all and get these signals working. With a the rain we are getting, I will have plenty of time to work on the problem.
I should have properly introduced myself.
I bought a 1981 xs650H. Runs great...except turn signals.
New tires, sprockets 17/32, seat cover, hallogen headlight, bars, grips, cables.
Did the cam chain and valves.
Starter motor doesn't work...so what?
Will get on the signals and then switch to LEDs.
I look forward to tracing your past posts. 11,000+ will take some time, but I got time.
Thanks, Rob
Baboss454
XS650 New Member
Great information Leo
I have a question...What would cause the neutral light to stay on after you click into gear and stay on while riding?
Thanks for any info
Lyle
I have a question...What would cause the neutral light to stay on after you click into gear and stay on while riding?
Thanks for any info
Lyle
Bad neutral switch. In the neutral light circuit, the bulb gets power on the brown wire, The sky blue wire from the bulb goes down to the neutral light switch. When in neutral the switch grounds the circuit, lighting the bulb. A bad switch will keep the circuit grounded.
Leo
Leo
Baboss454
XS650 New Member
Thanks for the info Leq
Paule167
Paule167
Help, ive just bought a 79 650 with a capacitor and no battery. When I test the voltage across the terminals I only get 5 volts. If I take the terminals off the cap and connect to a 12v nicad drill battery then the wires begin to melt.
NorazDad
NorazDad
Hey Leo,
I want to thank you for your time and expertise on this site.
I have an 81 H and I have been working on the turn signal issue for sometime. It only took the time to untangle the harness and check and clean all the connections...remove the starter, buy and build a new reg/rect, install a new flasher and get it all back onto the bike.
I am currently looking at a diagram from Jayels on my iPad that will make reassembly so much more reliable. Thanks for the encouragement and your willingness to shar your knowledge.
Rob
I want to thank you for your time and expertise on this site.
I have an 81 H and I have been working on the turn signal issue for sometime. It only took the time to untangle the harness and check and clean all the connections...remove the starter, buy and build a new reg/rect, install a new flasher and get it all back onto the bike.
I am currently looking at a diagram from Jayels on my iPad that will make reassembly so much more reliable. Thanks for the encouragement and your willingness to shar your knowledge.
Rob
theDQG
XS650 Addict
Very useful, thank you. So happy to find a diagram for the xs1b, thanks Jayel.
