What have you done to your XS today?

[MaxPete]

You can get the head off without breaking the cam chain:

http://www.xs650.com/threads/removing-camshaft-without-breaking-cam-chain.3940/#post-41482

By removing the bearings it allows you to thread the cam out.

Yup - and RobinC and I did precisely this on Lucille's engine last year. It works like a charm and it is an easy / no risk thing to do. Just BE CERTAIN to NOT drop anything down the timing chain channel between the cylinder bores. THAT would definitely generate a Class 1 OH F@CK moment and tears would ensue.

Now, since I eventually did have the cylinders bored and new pistons and rings installed, the timing (i.e. cam) chain was broken by the shop who did my engine, but the key thing is that you can remove the camshaft without breaking the timing chain. I have two additional points:

1. If you're going in there to do this much work, it seems to me that doing the rings and bores is not a bad idea anyway. The incremental cost is not that much and then your entire top end is freshened up.
2. Just in case you were wondering, what you canNOT do is remove the head with the engine in the frame. There simply isn't enough room between the cam cover and the frame backbone above the engine to get the cam cover and then the cylinder head out.

Its too bad really - but removing / re-installing the entire engine really isn't that difficult, especially if you have a helper (thanks RobinC and Lakeview). Besides, that way you have a great opportunity to clean some areas which likely haven't been clean for MANY decades.

Pete

 

[willis]

Paul... I've tried the dent removal kit from Harbor Freight which is very similar to your "thingy" tool you made. On my special tank that has no paint, I was not able to remove the dents that are both towards the back of the tank. I agree these tanks are thicker metal which makes it harder. I did however have a lot better success on my 75 black star ebay tank that had some significant dents in the front. I was able to pull most of them out without any damage to the paint. It took a lot of tries though and there are still some dents on it but it is definitely better than before I started.

 

[tzimmerm]

Yup - and RobinC and I did precisely this on Lucille's engine last year. It works like a charm and it is an easy / no risk thing to do. Just BE CERTAIN to NOT drop anything down the timing chain channel between the cylinder bores. THAT would definitely generate a Class 1 OH F@CK moment and tears would ensue.

Now, since I eventually did have the cylinders bored and new pistons and rings installed, the timing (i.e. cam) chain was broken by the shop who did my engine, but the key thing is that you can remove the camshaft without breaking the timing chain. I have two additional points:

1. If you're going in there to do this much work, it seems to me that doing the rings and bores is not a bad idea anyway. The incremental cost is not that much and then your entire top end is freshened up.
2. Just in case you were wondering, what you canNOT do is remove the head with the engine in the frame. There simply isn't enough room between the cam cover and the frame backbone above the engine to get the cam cover and then the cylinder head out.

Its too bad really - but removing / re-installing the entire engine really isn't that difficult, especially if you have a helper (thanks RobinC and Lakeview). Besides, that way you have a great opportunity to clean some areas which likely haven't been clean for MANY decades.

Pete

So, while I agree that it would be great to have a fresh top end, I basically have no more money to be pouring into this thing. I am saving money for a house, and I need to start taking college courses or start a trade this year. The girlfriend basically sees the bike as a useless money pit that I shouldn't even have to begin with, and I am getting stressed about money. The only issue I’m having is intermittent metallic oil that I am assuming is the cam chain guide. Compression is good and everything works as it should. I’ve invested a fair amount in the bike last year, and got it running and looking good. I put a little over 3k on her kast summer after New tires, brakes, rebuilt carbs with new diaphragms, rebuilt the front brake and now the front forks, updated the ignition, new seat and bars. If I could squeeze one more summer out of it without having to do a rebuild I would be happy. So if all I need to do is buy a new guide, and I can replace it without breaking the camchain and disturbing the cylinders, I am willing to get into that. Like I mentioned earlier, I’m not scared of getting the engine out, just need a clear understanding of my ability to finish the job and what is entailed if I’m going to do that. It’s looking like I can, and if the cost of the project is some sweat, sealant and a new guide, I can afford it.

 

[MaxPete]

Yup - understood. Replacing the front cam chain guide should be easy-peasy. Basically, pull the engine, remove the oil feed tube, pull the cam box and head and remove the guide and replace with a new one.

It is secured by those two bolts that live right behind the chrome oil feed tube that runs up the front of the engine.

If you looked at my thread on Lucille’s timing chain guide failure (“Lucille pulls another one on me”) you will find out way more than you want to know about timing chain guides. In my view, the ones sold by MikesXS, while not perfect, are fine to use as replacement parts (especially since the supply of NOS guides appears to have totally dried up). From my analysis, all of the key dimensions appear to match the OE Yamaha guides and the materials seem OK as well.

NOTE: you will need two copper crush washers to go under heads of those two cam chain guide mounting bolts and four more (NOT the same size) for the banjo bolts on top end of the oil feed tube (MikesXS has them and they’re cheap).

Pete

 

[member28833]

The girlfriend basically sees the bike as a useless money pit that I shouldn't even have to begin with, and I am getting stressed about money

If I could squeeze one more summer out of it without having to do a rebuild I would be happy.

You are on track to answering your own questions about rebuilding the engine in the apartment.
Being a guy who has done plenty of motorcycle work IN the home, I'll remind you that when the stove top becomes the lighted workbench, the sink becomes the parts wash basin, and the smells ? Uh oh, Girlfriend likes it even less !
These days, I place the girl the priority over the motorcycle INSIDE the home . LOL
-RT

 

[tzimmerm]

You are on track to answering your own questions about rebuilding the engine in the apartment.
Being a guy who has done plenty of motorcycle work IN the home, I'll remind you that when the stove top becomes the lighted workbench, the sink becomes the parts wash basin, and the smells ? Uh oh, Girlfriend likes it even less !
These days, I place the girl the priority over the motorcycle INSIDE the home . LOL
-RT

We’re not even living together yet, so I’m already fighting an uphill battle. I’ve got to get IN with her before worrying about getting thrown OUT. Now that I recall, When we first met though, my chopper engine was living on its stand on the kitchen floor for a month or two, so she had fair warning.

 

[650Skull]

Now that I recall, When we first met though, my chopper engine was living on its stand on the kitchen floor for a month or two, so she had fair warning.

Men don't expect women to change but they do.............

Women expect men to change but they don't.............

Successful relationships are based on, men have to change, women don't........When you get your head around that then compromise is as long as she gets her way. .........your house is hers to rule........you get the shed.....

 

[GLJ]

you get the shed.....

As long as she doesn't make it into a "she shed".

 

[tzimmerm]

Is that even a real thing or was it just made up for that insurance commercial?

 

[GLJ]

Is that even a real thing or was it just made up for that insurance commercial?

You obviously don't know women. Their worse than cats, they will take over everything.

 

[tzimmerm]

Hey now, you must not have been following my journey here. I bought my bike to help me cope after my divorce/custody battle. I’m currently dating a feminist politician. I’m pretty well versed in “Women”. I just didnt know if she sheds were a thing because it seems like such a ludicrous idea. But sadly I was just reading articles before your post about the fact that yes, they are real, and they are all about “women “reclaiming” traditionally male spaces.”

 

[GLJ]

Stake out your territory Plant your flag. Defend it until death or you get tired of sleeping in a cold bed.

 

[MaxPete]

It’s always dangerous giving advice (IMO) - BUT - GLJ has a point. The home must be at least partly yours or it will be all hers - and that can’t last.

Just be gentle and respectful - but firm.

Shuttin’ up now.

 

[GLJ]

Just be gentle and respectful - but firm.

Relationships are sometimes like corporate battles. Sometimes if you give in and loose you win in the long run.

 

[tzimmerm]

Ok, back on track- pete, I read through most of your thread there (I remember watching when that thread started) . Unfortunately I’m pretty sure my engije is making that same sound. At one point in the thread it says you have to remove the jugs to replace the front guide. I think it was from a service bulletin. That is incorrect though, right? I can just hold the top of the guide while loosening the screws, on the outside of the jugs, pull out the old and in with the new, then tighten, correct? If my plastic is still down in there like yours was, will I be able to see and retrieve it with the jugs still on?

 

[MaxPete]

Hi TZ: I’m simply not sure but I can’t see why you couldn’t remove those two bolts and slide the guide up and out. I cannot understand why the service bulletin would state the opposite.

Now - it the plastic has completely separated from the metal guide shoe - which is what happened to Lucille’s guide - then the big piece might have fallen down into the timing chain channel. You might be able to fish it out from above or you may have to remove the sump plate and take it out from below.

In any event, removing that sump plate is a core servicing task and you really should clean, inspect and if necessary repair or replace the sump strainer and get any other debris out of there.

Pete

 

[tzimmerm]

I replaced it with a new sump screen on the first oil change right after I bought it, and I checked it the next; not blown out and relatovely clean, but honestly I forgot to check both the sump and side filter the last two oil changes. I’ll take a good look at them both next time around.

 

[MaxPete]

The point is that if the guide has disintegrated, the pieces will be in the sump and likely in the side filter - and it would be best to remove all of that schmutz before you spend money rebuilding the engine and then starting it up again.

...just IMO.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... I am a little concerned about the metallic oil I’ve found from my last oil change...

Given your situation, an alternative.
- Install a paper filtration system.
- Frequent oil and filter changes.
- Ride it. Keep the wildman in a bag.
- Monitor.

I don't recall any stories of catastrophic engine failures from disintegrating front guides and metallic oil. Mostly irritating sounds. Different story if the metallics aren't aluminum...

 

[tzimmerm]

Given your situation, an alternative.
- Install a paper filtration system.
- Frequent oil and filter changes.
- Ride it. Keep the wildman in a bag.
- Monitor.

I don't recall any stories of catastrophic engine failures from disintegrating front guides and metallic oil. Mostly irritating sounds. Different story if the metallics aren't aluminum...

If this is a viable option, I’m inclined to go this route. You’re the first to suggest such blasphemy though. What do you mean by paper filtration? The paper filter mikes sells or the spin on filter mod to the sump plate?