What now

J

Jmann8686

XS650 Addict
Messages
125
Reaction score
24
Points
18
Location
Who cares vile
Not sure what to do. I just got my rocker box back today and started bolting the motor back together. Got to the bolt that sits right above the chain tensioner. I was bolting it down to spec. And I heard a pop and the bolt just sat there and spun. Stripped the threads out. Anything I can do besides take everything back apart and start over with new jugs. Can it be re tapped. Or do I need to take everything back apart and get new jugs

IMG_0006.JPG
 
Do it right. Take the head off and helicoil or other rethread operation I can't recall the name. First check the bolts under the spark plugs. See if they hold torque.
 
Humm a Pop usually means the bolt sheared off not pulled the threads out....
Yep I think you'll have to remove the head again and try to get the broken bolt out or re tap to the next larger diameter bolt
( don't forget to drill the hole larger in the head if you Need to)
I think those are only supposed to be torqued to 6lbs.... you can do that by snugging them up with an end wrench easy.( or in this case an allen wrench) their mainly there to stop oil leaks they don't hold the head down to the cylinders that much...
sense your putting it all back together I think it would be best just to take the engine back out again if it's convenient. get it up on the work bench where you can see it and see what your dealing with .
Just my opinion... I'm not an expert, so use your own judgment.
Bob......
 
If that ever happens to me again I'd look to see if I could drill down and enter the cam chain tensioner area and insert a bolt down from above and secure it with a lock washer and nut in that channel. There's not much metal there to do a Helicoil right. Don't be ham fisted/headed if you try the Helicoil.
 
azman857 said:
Do it right. Take the head off and helicoil or other rethread operation I can't recall the name. First check the bolts under the spark plugs. See if they hold torque.
Click to expand...
Other two by the plugs where tourqued. And taking the head off is what I was not wanting to do. But better then getting new jugs board out to 700 again

Bob Kelly III said:
Humm a Pop usually means the bolt sheared off not pulled the threads out....
Yep I think you'll have to remove the head again and try to get the broken bolt out or re tap to the next larger diameter bolt
( don't forget to drill the hole larger in the head if you Need to)
I think those are only supposed to be torqued to 6lbs.... you can do that by snugging them up with an end wrench easy.( or in this case an allen wrench) their mainly there to stop oil leaks they don't hold the head down to the cylinders that much...
sense your putting it all back together I think it would be best just to take the engine back out again if it's convenient. get it up on the work bench where you can see it and see what your dealing with .
Just my opinion... I'm not an expert, so use your own judgment.
Bob......
Click to expand...
Bolt is not broken. I checked. I pulled the bolt out and there was material on the threads. And my book said 6-10. And I guess 8 was to much. It was hand tight and I was snugging/tourqeing it down and felt it roll as I heard a small pop.
 
nj1639 said:
If that ever happens to me again I'd look to see if I could drill down and enter the cam chain tensioner area and insert a bolt down from above and secure it with a lock washer and nut in that channel. There's not much metal there to do a Helicoil right. Don't be ham fisted/headed if you try the Helicoil.
Click to expand...
I thought about that. Not sure if there is enough room to have a nut above the chain tensioner
 
well that sux ! at least you know what your up against.... Myself I would just tap to the next bigger size bolt but I'm not sure if that's a good thing to do or not.....
I wouldn't be afraid of going too deep with the drill bit either because it would go into the cam chain tensioner area like nj1639 said.
perhaps you could get enough meat ( threads) just by doing that and using a bit longer bolt .....
..... it seams these small bolts on the head are always giving guys trouble.... so don't feel alone !
.....
Bob........
 
Bob Kelly III said:
well that sux ! at least you know what your up against.... Myself I would just tap to the next bigger size bolt but I'm not sure if that's a good thing to do or not.....
I wouldn't be afraid of going too deep with the drill bit either because it would go into the cam chain tensioner area like nj1639 said.
perhaps you could get enough meat ( threads) just by doing that and using a bit longer bolt .....
..... it seams these small bolts on the head are always giving guys trouble.... so don't feel alone !
.....
Bob........
Click to expand...
Thanks man. Got a little to excited and got carried away. Been a year so far since I first tore into the motor. And finally got all the pieces back and wanted to get it together. I'm going to look at the helicoil thing. I had never heard of them before. But first I still to take it back apart. Fun fun.
 
I always bought my Helicoils and the tool to put them in with and the bigger tap from the auto stores but they don't always carry metric
helicoils so you may have to look around to find one ... in my experience Helicoils work as good as the original hole did so be sure you don't over tighten it ! it will pull out just as easy ! ....
however on aluminum engines the threads are subject to horrendous loads with all the flexing the aluminum does all a helicoil is is a thread the inside the diameter of the bolt your putting in it... the outside the thread is bigger and so you must tap the hole to fit that helicoil then put a bunch of locktight on the thread/helicoil and screw it in.... on the many I did they had a tang so your fork inserting tool could turn the helicoil...
that tang will bottom out your screw so it needs to be either down deeper than the screw sense it's near impossible to trim off the tang
once it's in the hole.... it is something to consider.
usually helicoils are short and I hate that ...they should be twice as long as they are commonly made but their not...
also put anti seize on your bolt before putting it into a Helicoil because excess loctite will squeeze out between the threads and lock the bolt some times .... if that happens you can't get the bolt out next time.... so antiseize will help prevent that from happening.
loctite is strange stuff it only hardens in the absence of oxygen... so a drip of loctite will wait there patiently for the bolt to be inserted then lock it permanently !
clean rags over the connecting rods ,pistons and depression into the crank area is a must when doing this ...treat it like a hospital room as you don't want drill shavings or tap shavings in the bottom end !
there are many ways to repair a broken stud or stripped out hole but the easiest is just re tap it for a slightly bigger bolt.... Usually that means also drilling out the bolt hole as well for the larger bolt and some places that is a big problem ....
that's why Helicoils were invented... you can use the same bolt in the same hole... you just have to put the new threads in is all.
all in all it's not that hard to do ...follow the instructions ! they usually come as a plastic kit with the helicoil tap and inserting tool as well as the loctite or thread locker.... at least that's how I bought them 35 years ago ! LOL
good luck ! please let us know how you get along on this thing !
....
Bob........
 
KOOL ! Great find 2M ! that's what a Helicoil Should'a been ! far better I am SURE !!!!
......
Bob......
 
Bob Kelly III said:
I always bought my Helicoils and the tool to put them in with and the bigger tap from the auto stores but they don't always carry metric
helicoils so you may have to look around to find one ... in my experience Helicoils work as good as the original hole did so be sure you don't over tighten it ! it will pull out just as easy ! ....
however on aluminum engines the threads are subject to horrendous loads with all the flexing the aluminum does all a helicoil is is a thread the inside the diameter of the bolt your putting in it... the outside the thread is bigger and so you must tap the hole to fit that helicoil then put a bunch of locktight on the thread/helicoil and screw it in.... on the many I did they had a tang so your fork inserting tool could turn the helicoil...
that tang will bottom out your screw so it needs to be either down deeper than the screw sense it's near impossible to trim off the tang
once it's in the hole.... it is something to consider.
usually helicoils are short and I hate that ...they should be twice as long as they are commonly made but their not...
also put anti seize on your bolt before putting it into a Helicoil because excess loctite will squeeze out between the threads and lock the bolt some times .... if that happens you can't get the bolt out next time.... so antiseize will help prevent that from happening.
loctite is strange stuff it only hardens in the absence of oxygen... so a drip of loctite will wait there patiently for the bolt to be inserted then lock it permanently !
clean rags over the connecting rods ,pistons and depression into the crank area is a must when doing this ...treat it like a hospital room as you don't want drill shavings or tap shavings in the bottom end !
there are many ways to repair a broken stud or stripped out hole but the easiest is just re tap it for a slightly bigger bolt.... Usually that means also drilling out the bolt hole as well for the larger bolt and some places that is a big problem ....
that's why Helicoils were invented... you can use the same bolt in the same hole... you just have to put the new threads in is all.
all in all it's not that hard to do ...follow the instructions ! they usually come as a plastic kit with the helicoil tap and inserting tool as well as the loctite or thread locker.... at least that's how I bought them 35 years ago ! LOL
good luck ! please let us know how you get along on this thing !
....
Bob........
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info. I appreciate it. Not looking forward to taking it all back apart again though. its called a project for a reason. I will be looking for parts today

YamadudeXS650C said:
Someone recommended this product as being stronger than a helicoil, but I haven't tried one, yet.

http://www.timesert.com/
Click to expand...

These look nice. thank you
 
LOL well ya know some time's ya fall in and come out smelling like a Rose ! HAHAHHAH !
glad it worked for ya ... now if you develop a leak there you know what your going to have to do .... but hay give it a shot and see if it holds ! whatt'a ya got to loose ?
.....KOOL !
glad someone has some luck.... seams like I used all mine up a few years ago and everything has been bad sense ! LOL
......
Bob........
 
If it's possible to Helicoil it... Helicoil in aluminum is better than original threads in aluminum. I have been told that many aluminum airplane parts leave the factory Helicoiled from the beginning.

But -- if I had no experience I'd let a machine shop do it, rather than giving it to some guy with no experience...
 
I believe it's how the aluminum is cut.... when aluminum is cut it typically wants to ball up and rip instead of slice
especially when done by a machine , machine tapping is notoriously bad in aluminum. helicoils are Drawn into their shape
that makes then slightly denser and therefore stronger... but they go into regular aluminum anyway ....and although
the hole they go into is larger and has more surface area than the original and therefore slightly stronger... it's not very much
the problem is the length of the helicoil their always too short...their lucky to be 1/2" long and they need to be at least 3/4" minimum
but you have to deal with what ya got.....lol.
if an when you ever tap aluminum use a real sharp tap and go in about 1/2 a turn and back it out 3/4 turn and feel the cut threads sheer off
but do not screw the tap all the way in without backing it off that will cause the rough cuts that the machines produce....
you see allot of guys on youtube tapping holes with a drill.... that is a absolute no-no !!!!!! i never use a drill when I tap threads ever.even in wood
( which hold surprisingly well I might add ! )
I use anywhere from 1/2 turn on the tap to 1 turn of the tap before i reverse directions and go far enough to feel the threads being cut off.
and use large amounts of cutting oil and cutting oil if you can get it is better than normal oil as it penetrates the metal better
I've been using ATF automatic transmission oil for my cutting oil because it's thin and usually allot thinner than the oil in my oil cans.
I understand you can take normal 30 weight and add a 50/50 mix of Kerosene and have real good cutting oil.... just be sure you mix it real good before you use it every time....
....the biggest problem people have when tapping threads is they use the wrong size drill bit for the tap.... the hole size is critical and needs to be straight with no wobble while drilling it so the hole should be done in a drill press, ....though that rarely happens but try to keep it as straight as possible.... when sizing a drill bit for the hole i need for tapping threads I typically just take the tap to the drill bits and hold them up to the light and do it by eyeball the drill must be the same size or smaller than the tap at the base of the threads, not the tip of the threads. If it's too much smaller than the base of the threads you can't get the tap to start for love nor money.... the professional way to do it is use the Drill bit that you bought with the tap.... they are the same size as the bottom of the threads of the tap.... but after years of having my drills and taps mixed up it's anyone's guess what size they are and I don't bother using my caliper to tell me.
so Yes tapping threads can be done in a hap hazard way if you are careful and it is cheaper by far..if I ran out and bought a new tap and drill bet set every time I tapped a bolt hole I'ed need a storage container just to hold them !..... I tap allot of holes ! LOL
if you use too big a drill bit the threads won't hold worth a darn so it's better to go undersize than over size, be careful not to brake the tap off in the hole ! if you can feel the tap flexing back it out and add more cutting oil and clean the tap with a brush.oil it and try again
the last few centimeters is always the hardest to tap that's when you have to be real careful.
Please don't use a Power drill when tapping threads ! unless you want a hole the size of the tap ! and don't have a drill bit that size LOL
......
Bob......
 
Last edited:
"timesert" thread replacement is clearly the strongest repair of stripped threads in such cases of say a spark plug hole repair. Helicoil repair in my experience has just been an acceptable repair. In small thread applications, say 6mm or even 8mm, with low torque requirements, I have actually been successful for decades using a jb weld thread minor coating drilled to the appropriate thread size minor dia, ( or a little under) then carefully tapped.
 
Thanks Bob........Take 2 nodoz before reading...................how not to do something, or maybe if and should when............
 
ok then, how do You tap aluminum Skull ? in 20 words or less .???
TM: I've never used J.B Weld then re drilled and tapped it's good to know it's an alternative ! thank you....
.....
Bob....
 

Similar threads

DB90
First time engine rebuild
Replies
17
Views
708
DB90
DB90
M
Not starting after a few small maintenance jobs. I’m stumped.
2
Replies
33
Views
1K
Jim
Jim
motormike
Sellers remorse (insert sad face here)
Replies
15
Views
455
Kevin Werner
Kevin Werner
Fingerscrossed
Engine cutting out / dies on throttle
2 3
Replies
41
Views
1K
Fingerscrossed
Fingerscrossed
V
Multiple questions (cam chain tensioner, crank case?)
2
Replies
23
Views
2K
jetmechmarty
jetmechmarty
Back
Top