desmodromic
XS650 Addict
What type of metal (mild steel, chromoly), size (ID,OD,Wall)/type (DOM, ERW) of tube is used for frame building? I am curious so I can price out the dies for a bender.
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What size and type of tubing is used for frame building?
- Thread starter desmodromic
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1.25" for frame and 1.5" for backbone. As a min use DOM tube in 0.120" wall thickness, don't use schedule 40 or ERW tube.
very limited in Australia for performance steel like this, hence no where in Sydney stocked 1.25" so I had to get chromoly, would have been possible to go a thinner wall but they didn't have any.
very limited in Australia for performance steel like this, hence no where in Sydney stocked 1.25" so I had to get chromoly, would have been possible to go a thinner wall but they didn't have any.
desmodromic
XS650 Addict
So if a .120" is a min wall thickness, does the frame flex a lot with it? BTW do you like your JD2 bender? No kinks or problems? Any draw backs?
DickECCP
DickECCP
What I have found that most suppliers that stock DOM usually stock .120" and .065". By no means am I offering any advice when it comes to building frames, but .120" is pretty thick, very strong and is perfect for anything that requires a high degree of strength.(frame cradle, swing arm, hardtail, etc) The .065 works great for things like frame sub section, seat/fender mounts, minor bracing, control monts, etc. The .065" will be easier to bend also for small items. Most stock frames are fairly thin and require a lot of bracing.
sonicarb13
sonicarb13
Unless you are running a single down tube 1" dom .120 wall is sufficient. It's also the perfect inside diameter to use 3/4" solid for slugging without having to turn something down on a lathe. Personally 1 1/4" is enough for backbone use, if you are building a chopper you will be stripping a lot o factory weight. I have some serious miles on such frames with no issues.
very happy with my JD bender, only drawback would be the air over hyd cylinder. It's very slow but this makes it harder to over bend things which is good
TwoJugs
Excess XS
If you are looking to cut off your frame and add on a hardtail you will find that 1 1/8 tubing is the closest match. It is also a hard die to find. Depending on your engineering skills and intended use try to stay with DOM tubing. I was surprised when asking around, a few popular names in this circle use ERW and different OD size tubing? If you are building from scratch you should be prepared to get advice from other who have done the same and filter through the suggestions not accepting any as the right way to go.
I built my own hardtail and used 1-1/4 x.120 wall DOM. The Greenlee ratcheting conduit bender at work set up for 1" ridged worked great on that tubing. Only problem is that I was stuck with one long sweeping radius as far as bends were concerned.
What is your logic for not using HREW. I have built many a roll cage and off road buggies and not one of them has had DOM in them. Unless you need to have exacting tolerances DOM is over priced for most applications. Esp if you are running in the .120 wall area, which imo is over kill for a frame like this.
landerson
XS650 Member
Has anyone ever experienced ERW tube failure when installed in a custom XS650 frame application? Seams splitting, cracking, low spots due to tube integrity itself? I can't see the stresses caused by engine vibration or basic riding causing an ERW tube (of reasonable min wall and od) to fail vs the integrity of welds holding the frame together. The frame or structure is only as strong as its weakest link and the concept of proper welding can be overlooked. I know this doesn't address the original question but always an intersting topic.
BobbedSled
XS650 Addict
Old thread but ERW is used with little issue. Here is a good resource, actually I used this asn a guide to understand make my own frame. Just a classic design in that guide. Looks so good. See Page 67 on metals btw.
http://www.knucklebusterinc.com/tech/FrameFabrication.pdf
http://www.knucklebusterinc.com/tech/FrameFabrication.pdf
landerson
XS650 Member
I also referred to the same guide a while back. Good info in it.
What's the cost difference between DOM and ERW? Is your life worth the difference?
Or the next owners life.
A roll cage doesn't have much effect on the integrity of the vehicle. On a bike the frame is the vehicle.
Leo
Or the next owners life.
A roll cage doesn't have much effect on the integrity of the vehicle. On a bike the frame is the vehicle.
Leo
BobbedSled
XS650 Addict
That is not bad advice by any means. The steering tube head needs to be DOM or Chromo at a minimum. But in the interest of fully qualifying the discussion... in SCORE, the tubing frame is the vehicle so it is very much a part of the integrity. SCORE rules state CREW is all that is required if your less than 6000 pounds or so. They specify OD and ID as well of course. Shoot even NASCAR is mild steel.
Remember there is value is having the steel give and flex under load, without that the stress is on the weld seams. Using properly sized tube for the application (what ever type is used) is not really the issue, assuming your not using 1" OD with .0625 wall ERW or something stupid like that, really it is not, it is the welds more than anything. I tacked my frame up really well and sent it out to aerospace welding shop here in PHX btw.
But if in doubt for what ever reason then sure use DOM. Not bad advice by any means.
Remember there is value is having the steel give and flex under load, without that the stress is on the weld seams. Using properly sized tube for the application (what ever type is used) is not really the issue, assuming your not using 1" OD with .0625 wall ERW or something stupid like that, really it is not, it is the welds more than anything. I tacked my frame up really well and sent it out to aerospace welding shop here in PHX btw.
But if in doubt for what ever reason then sure use DOM. Not bad advice by any means.
chizler62
XS650 Addict
@XSLeo I build a lot with both. In a pinch Metal Supermarkets on Broadway in Albany, I see you're from NY, sells me 6' DOM sticks, so it fits in my truck, at $12.
IMO I don't like ERW. the inner weld sometimes is a pain if you're making a plug weld type joint or a threaded bung etc DOM and ERW wear the hole saws, end mills equally. Not until 4130 does tooling,pricing and welding become a factor.
DOM has about 20% more tensile strength but I believe its not an issue if you're miters are spot on and welds are good.
NASCAR etc Roll cages don't like 4130. In a wreck you want some energy to be absorbed by the cage bending. Mild steel, ERW, DOM will bend in a wreck. 4130 won't absorb energy by bending it'll just take the load till it snaps. Theres more but that a quick.
IMO the MOST important factor in a frame build is the tube fitment. If it doesn't look like it might hold water it won't get welded in my shop. Tubing blocks and a protractor is all you need to make perfect joints.
I've just built 2 XS650 frames, for myself, 1 out of 1" .083 wall DOM. It seemed fine. Only put 200 miles on it tho. Second frame 1-1/4" .120= 1/8" wall DOM. Only put like 20 miles before the cold. My goal was to see HOW much difference the tubing make in the quality of the ride. My back found out a TON....in fact my next frame, if I ever get the time will have the "seat stay" tubes made from carbon fiber and the rest of the frame DOM 1" .120 wall. That should give me a nice old guy ride and will look cool too. Probably a pipe dream tho.
IMO I don't like ERW. the inner weld sometimes is a pain if you're making a plug weld type joint or a threaded bung etc DOM and ERW wear the hole saws, end mills equally. Not until 4130 does tooling,pricing and welding become a factor.
DOM has about 20% more tensile strength but I believe its not an issue if you're miters are spot on and welds are good.
NASCAR etc Roll cages don't like 4130. In a wreck you want some energy to be absorbed by the cage bending. Mild steel, ERW, DOM will bend in a wreck. 4130 won't absorb energy by bending it'll just take the load till it snaps. Theres more but that a quick.
IMO the MOST important factor in a frame build is the tube fitment. If it doesn't look like it might hold water it won't get welded in my shop. Tubing blocks and a protractor is all you need to make perfect joints.
I've just built 2 XS650 frames, for myself, 1 out of 1" .083 wall DOM. It seemed fine. Only put 200 miles on it tho. Second frame 1-1/4" .120= 1/8" wall DOM. Only put like 20 miles before the cold. My goal was to see HOW much difference the tubing make in the quality of the ride. My back found out a TON....in fact my next frame, if I ever get the time will have the "seat stay" tubes made from carbon fiber and the rest of the frame DOM 1" .120 wall. That should give me a nice old guy ride and will look cool too. Probably a pipe dream tho.
