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Wheel truing questions...

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by X77S, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. X77S

    X77S Unmotivated..... HELP!

    So I've already relaced and trued my rear alloy rim and started truing my front last night. I've got one tall spot radially at the seam maybe 2mm that I can't seem to remove. I assume the seam is the issue. I suppose the question is whether 2mm or so in one spot is too far out of the realm of what I should run.
    I'm probably being entirely too nitpicky and should just go ahead and get a tire mounted.
    Thanks in advance for any insight or advise.
     
  2. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    Yup mount the tire, welded seam "bumps" don't count in truing.
     
    X77S likes this.
  3. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    ..... and I'm pretty sure 2mm is the factory spec for truing these, so you're right at it in that spot. Gary's right, the weld seam, even though you usually can't see it with the naked eye, always puts a "bump" in there. I just get the wheel as true as possible on either side of it and just ignore the "bump".
     
    gggGary likes this.
  4. halfmile

    halfmile XS650 Junkie Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

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    Hi David. If it is a welded seam I would not grind or file this true. The rear on my scrambler was off so I exchanged it for one that was off just the same amount. Waste of time. Mount the tire.:thumbsup:
     
  5. mrtwowheel

    mrtwowheel Honda Etched On Brain Top Contributor

    2mm, I'd say that you are lucky. The front wheel that I am working with has more than 2mm runout on both planes at the weld.

    Scott
     
    gggGary likes this.
  6. X77S

    X77S Unmotivated..... HELP!

    Good to hear. I will get it mounted up then. I haven't had any luck so far mounting tires with tubes without tearing the tube. Probably just drop it off at the local indy shop and save myself the hassle.
     
  7. XSLeo

    XSLeo XS650 Guru

    Pinching tubes is easy. I have had pretty good luck most times. The last tire I mounted The tube started to look like more patch than tube.
    I must have had it off 8 times. I let it set a day or two, went and got new tube and it went right together first time.
    Having the wheel up off the ground helps a lot. Easier on your back and won't get dirt, grass or mud inside.
    I change all my own tires. I have the Harbor Freight tire changer for car and light truck tires, I then bought the motorcycle tire adapter. The adapter sets on top of the regular changer.
    It has a arm that comes up and over the wheel to hold a steel rod to pry against, I tried it but it work for me.
    I just mount the wheel, then use regular tire irons.
    This way your up in the air and can work all around the tire. No sore back from crouching down.
    You can get just the adapter and mount it on something else. Some thing like a heavy duty stand for a portable table saw. Just set down in the hole in the stand and bolt in place.
    Leo
     
    gggGary likes this.
  8. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I have the HF tire changer and it works very well. The trick is getting the proper pry bar to use with it. They sell motorcycle specific ones but they are outrageously priced in my opinion (near $100). It's just a 3' length of 1" square tubing with nylon ends for crying out loud, lol. I found a place that sells the replacement nylon ends for about $20 so I bought them and made my own bar.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. cra-z1

    cra-z1 XS650 Junkie

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    Can you post your source on those nylon bits
     
    gggGary likes this.
  10. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I got them from these folks. They used to sell them as a package on eBay but I don't see the listing anymore, but you can still buy directly from them .....

    http://www.wikco.biz/accessories.htm

    The angle "mount" end was simple - just weld a small piece of angle to the square tube and screw the Delrin plastic angle to it. The "dismount" pin end was a little more complicated. I had to have a step turned on one end of a short piece of 1" diameter solid bar for the plastic pin to fit over, and then have a hole drilled and tapped through the center of it. A buddy was able to take this to work and have it done (we made him one too). Then it was a simple matter to just weld the short piece of round bar to the end of the square tube.

    [​IMG]

    These plastic ends got all scuffed up and blackened from the tire rubber after a couple uses so I bought another set as back-ups. But, the originals are still holding up fine after nearly 10 years of use. And let me just say, between my 4 or 5 bikes, and several buddies' bikes, I've changed LOTS of tires in that time, lol.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  11. KennyD77

    KennyD77 77 D Model

    Agree, a very good friend of mine who worked in dealerships for many years told me 'Whatever happens at the weld doesn't count.'
     
    GLJ and gggGary like this.
  12. X77S

    X77S Unmotivated..... HELP!

    Well I broke down and bought the HF moto tire changer. Now to make a stand. Also I figured it would come with the tire mounting end. No such luck. Will have to track down a tool.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  13. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    Yes, the pry bar doesn't come with the motorcycle attachment, it comes with the car tire changer that the motorcycle attachment is made to fit on top of. But, that car tire pry bar really isn't suited for motorcycle wheels anyway. It's all steel, including the ends, so would probably scratch up a motorcycle rim pretty good.

    As I said, my HF changer works very well, but it did need some "tweaks", in particular to the rim clamps. My older model had clamping blocks with small "V" notches in them for the edge of the rim to fit into, but the notches were way too small. Many rims, especially steel ones with the fat rolled edge, wouldn't fit into it, and pretty much none would fit with added rubber protection, which I considered essential. On the latest model, the rim clamps are a complete joke. They're just vertical pieces of plate with no notch of any sort. I can't see them safely holding a rim, it would pop out I'm sure .....

    [​IMG]

    For mine, I made bolt-on pieces with a larger "V" shaped piece of plate attached .....

    [​IMG]

    They are large enough to allow me to fit lengths of 5/8" fuel line split down one side to the rim for protection .....

    [​IMG]

    This works really well and locks the rim into the clamp much better than a metal to metal clamping situation would. But over the years, I did encounter a couple wheels with wider hubs that wouldn't fit down low enough into the changer. On many others, they wouldn't fit with the sprocket or disc facing down, you had to face it up. It worked that way but the disc or sprocket was usually sort of in the way while you were working the pry bar around the rim. I finally built some new clamp attachments that sit about 1" higher. This should solve those issues I hope. This is one of my original attachments in the center, new higher ones to the left and right .....

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. X77S

    X77S Unmotivated..... HELP!

    Yea I have some plans for at least bending the tabs inward. I am going to attempt to weld a stand up this weekend and see what's what. I was trying to decide if a normal tire iron would be able to work but it's hard to imagine without actually trying things. A piece of 1 1/4" pipe fits the inner diameter of the tire changer, and I just so happen to have some on my work truck. Now to see if my welder is up for the task of welding angle iron to schedule 40 pipe. Really wish my garage was wired for 220.
     
    gggGary likes this.
  15. solo2racr

    solo2racr Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow

    30gal. barrel with some tubing split & wired into the top edge and a pair of STEEL tire irons and I'm set. Tubed or tubeless.....makes no difference. Probably pinch about 1 out of 100 tubes. When you have worked at a bike shop for years and this is the only way to do it, one gets pretty good at it. Normal time is about 30 minutes. Wheel off the bike, tire changed, wheel balanced , wheel back on the bike.
     
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  16. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Okay, been there done that years ago and can still change a rear tire even on the ground if I had to BUT , What about these high shoulder aluminum rims on these Standard XS's? They are too fragile looking for me to go at them with tire irons.
    Way too pretty to scratch up or bend . I havent attempted a tire change on an XS aluminum wheel. I have a shop guy I trust.
     
  17. 5twins

    5twins XS650 Guru Top Contributor

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    I've changed lots of them. If used properly, the plastic tipped bar doesn't leave a mark.
     
  18. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! Top Contributor XS650.com Supporter

    I have a on old coats 200 manual MC tire changer in the shed and use it in warm weather. But change a lot of tires on a rug on the floor with a couple chunks of 2x4 in the winter. Warming the wheel and tire by the woodstove before working helps a lot, the big steel bar on the coats and my 3 tire irons all have the ends smoothed and polished, do this! Ruglide tire lube makes a big difference, I keep a spritzer bottle at hand.. Sometimes the best (only?) way to remove decades old rock hard tires is a hacksaw. and bolt cutters. I'll confess; occasionally tools slip, rims get "character marks", life happens. Modern painted sportbike rims are worse than mud catcher alloys for marking.
     
    MrBultaco likes this.
  19. solo2racr

    solo2racr Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow

    Should be a piece of cake. The only thing I remember being a PITA about any 650 wheel is the 16" rear on "Specials". And that was just because it was 16".

    Try doing a 4.50x18 rear knobby with 2 rim locks and a tube!:boxing:

    Tire lube is your friend!! (Water mixed with Dawn soap about 10:1)
     
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  20. Machine

    Machine Race the wind Top Contributor

    Gotcha, have you ever encountered a "Hi Point" rear off road rim with not only 2 rim locks but also bead "spikes" all around the rim inside bead ?
    Bloody Knuckle time lol..
    The manual "Coats" tire changing stand and corresponding tire bar with plastic end covers was very popular in small business cycle shops . Those worked like magic !
    I would go at a XS Standard high shoulder rim on a Coats but,... dont have one :thumbsdown:
    -RT
     

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