WHERE DID IT GO , IM AM WORRIED

[funky]

Hi all went to a place called Crazy horse customs about 50 miles from where i live.
had a slight detour enroute ended up doing about 60 mile one way.
This was my first longish ride on my XS ...
While I was at Crazy horse i checked my oil level and to my dissmay about a third of it was gone.
had to buy some mobile 1 20/50 fully synthetic to top up, as my standard oil I use is mobile 1 extended life 10/60 fully synthetic was not available.Engine was fully rebuilt 3000 miles ago ran it properly as advised the only thing that was not right was jetting on my carbs which i have sorted out ,,,, as you know this takes time.
I gave the bike some beans on the way home and noticed a little smoke on hard exeleration from both exhausts ????????
Checked the oil and again, it had used the same on the way back .
I bought 1 ltr and used 700ml in 126miles ...... should i be worried .....
My bike has standard air filters and breather... I maintain the bike well,,,oil and filter change every 1000 miles. can't see any major leaks, I know and have been told that these older engines use a little oil but is this right Should i be worried.
Going to do a leakage tests on the valves and a compression test just to start my investigation .

 

[gggGary]

Yeah that's a lot. Did you retorque the head a time or two after the rebuild? Will be interesting to see the plugs. Guess I am going to suspect a head gasket from your description so far.

 

[funky]

Hi gggGary re torqued the head in three stages as advised plugs are good mate no fouling dark ring light brown electrode and insulator, bike runs great. i was thinking valve stem oil seals at first.
I did read in the manual that the later machine should be run 10 mm below maximum mark on the dip stick, could this be the issue as i have been keeping the oil level on maximum.
If it is head gastket i would be surprised as its only done 3000 miles, from a professonal rebuild.Rebore to 707cc new pistons, piston rings seals bearings everything,
I am also thinking 10/60 Mobil 1 extended life may be to thin , well to be honest im thinking everything.
Thanks for the response hope all is well any further input would be appreciated.

 

[funky]

On the oil level change I posted the Bulletin from the Factory manual. It explains why it was changed and how to measure your dip stick to tell if it has been changed.
Leo

http://www.xs650.com/attachments/scan0001-558x640-jpg.45787/
Just found this i am hoping this is the issue. I am going to drain the oil and refill to the specified amount and see.
My engine is a SH model 1981 special II I wonder if this applies to me ?????? thisn is what i am thinking

 

[gggGary]

All dip sticks 76 up were revised. Long as it doesn't go below the bottom mark............ looks like your stance is still basically stock. They can be burning a lot of oil before it shows on plugs, or as visible smoke. How is your Crankcase vent routed? Might point it in a catch bottle for a bit. The head gasket cam chain tunnel area has been an issue for a fair number of guys over the years.

 

[funky]

Hi i just drained the oil and refiled it with new oil to the revised level the engine is running smoother and when i rev the engine had there is no visable smoke as before.
I am going to keep an eye on the oil level over the next 100 or so miles and see I just went for a little 10 mile jaunt and the level is unchanged.
I think too much oil was the issue .... fingers crossed

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Hi gggGary re torqued the head in three stages as advised plugs are good mate no fouling dark ring light brown electrode and insulator, bike runs great. i was thinking valve stem oil seals at first.
I did read in the manual that the later machine should be run 10 mm below maximum mark on the dip stick, could this be the issue as i have been keeping the oil level on maximum.
If it is head gastket i would be surprised as its only done 3000 miles, from a professonal rebuild.Rebore to 707cc new pistons, piston rings seals bearings everything,
I am also thinking 10/60 Mobil 1 extended life may be to thin , well to be honest im thinking everything.
Thanks for the response hope all is well any further input would be appreciated.

I agree with you that the 10/60 synth may be inappropriate. As for myself and many others, I use Rotella 15w/40 dino oil in all of my bikes, and change at 500 miles in my XS650's which do not have a paper oil filter.

The Xs650 does burn quite a bit of oil, and then there is the occasional oil leak at speed that occurs.

 

[funky]

Yes i am considering changing to 20/50. I have an oil cooler and an external oil filter conversion it uses a hiflo 147 filter. I think there is too much case pressure when there is the higher level of oil in the engine. The swept volume of the pistons is not any different beneath the piston the icreased volume of oil in the sump along with the displacment of air in the sump from pistons down stroke may be causing a resistance on the downward stroke due to the increase in case pressure, causing the engine to run lumpy along with pushing more oil through the breather and into the intake where it mixes with fuel and air causing the smoke at high RPM. Not to forget the increase in cubic capacity of my rebore to 707cc which would i feel make a differance ....
That my Theory any way ,,,, lol lets see ...

 

[retiredgentleman]

If the engine is in good mechanical condition inside, then these engines do not use oil. Using a lot of oil in a short distance is something to worry about. Only 3000 miles since a professional rebuild, means the engine should be in tip top condition. If the head gasket has failed, you would be seeing the spark plugs blacken very rapidly, but you say they are normal colour.
Nothing really adds up here???

Is it possible your sump level went high due to gasoline leaking past a bad petcock and float valve. Then during the trip, the gasoline evaporated away, resulting in an indicated much lower level. Does the oil smell like gasoline (petrol)??

 

[DogBunny]

I'll reiterate what RG said -- a good engine does not use oil. Will also reiterate that filling above the half-way mark on the stick is a waste, it just blows out the breather. Half-way up the stick is "full."
Will add this: if you are changing your oil at 1000 miles (which is a good practice), then synthetic or semi-synthetic oil is a waste of your money. I am guessing Suffolk has a mild climate, you should be using conventional, motorcycle-specific, 4-stroke 10-W40. I use 20-W50, but I live in Texas.

Aren't the oils that you said you use automobile oils? Auto oils will make your clutch slip.

 

[TimeMachine]

Full synthetic on a fresh bore ? Isn't that a no no ? Get the rings seated first with heavier motorcycle oil ? -RT

 

[gggGary]

Cool it just became an oil thread!

I kinda keep a close eye on oil specs, the "phosphorus, ZDDP catalytic poisoning thing" has made a lot of oil "not what it used to be"
For now the best oil to use is ATV oil, all the mtorcycle specs but ATV's aren't running cats (Yet) so the oil can still contain ZDDP.
Ford recently issued an SB about the new formulation diesel oils. SJ-4 diesel spec oil is good but virtually all diesel oil is now SK-4 spec and Ford found problems in their diesels during engine wear tests using SK-4 oil. They are saying stay away til they get a new spec oil that will not harm the engines.
http://www.automotive-fleet.com/new...4-alternative-oil-for-super-duty-diesels.aspx
I took a look on the shelves at a couple retailers all the diesel oil was SK-4.

 

[TimeMachine]

gggGary you were much prettier as "Morticia" ? are these XS engines particular about modern oils ? If so, Im in trouble !

 

[funky]

Hi Chaps thanks for the replies.
The engine was run in with running in oil, i just did another few miles and it had used some of the oil even at the new level, half way between the max and min, I cant beleive its the rings i have never over reved the engine even when i took it to 105 mph i kept the revs under red line,the bike pulls well.
looks like im going to have to pull the engine, head off at least then I can check everything.That is the only way to know for sure.
New engines dont use oil you chaps are right so pulling the head off is my only option. Oh well just my luck.
Thanks chaps.

 

[gggGary]

gggGary you were much prettier as "Morticia" ? are these XS engines particular about modern oils ? If so, Im in trouble !

IMHO We don't know. but the tappet ends, valve stem ends take a beating, anything to help that can't be bad. Also "I think" our tappet cam profile qualifies as a flat tappet design, that's the usual "ZDDP needed" qualifier. If you are running a high lift cam your loads there are even higher.
(that's a HUGE subject, beyond my pay grade, but in general)

 

[TimeMachine]

True that , all good, I give. I don't ride enough miles lately.. its the valve train that needs it. Hell, you all are right about Oregon, never ending off season ! So bummed today my motor oil is just aging without running.. -RT

 

[fredintoon]

Hi Funky,
I reckon running synthetic oil is a great way to make oil companies wealthy but it won't help your engine at all.
The only good thing synthetics do is last longer in car engines.
Seeing as the XS650's all roller & ball bottom end crushes the shit out of whatever oil it gets PDQ
and the XS650's alleged "filters" work about as well as a fish'n'chip shop's fat strainer would at keeping the oil clean
you'd best do an oil change every 1,500 miles Maximum.
ANY plan old fashioned motorcycle-specific 20W50 Dinosaur juice will do.
As to oil levels and dipsticks:-
Drain the oil. Pour in 2 litres of new oil. Check the oil level on your dipstick. Remember where the level is.

 

[TimeMachine]

fredintoon, you forgot to put this guy on your post lol...

 

[YamadudeXS650C]

Rotella Diesel 15w-40 is 13 bucks a gallon at my local Walmart. $3.25 a quart. I keep 6 gallons handy.

 

[fredintoon]

Rotella Diesel 15w-40 is 13 bucks a gallon at my local Walmart. $3.25 a quart. I keep 6 gallons handy.

Hi 'dude,
yeah, that's an old favorite but you'd better be able to interpret the Runes on the side of the can to make sure that WallyMart are still selling the good stuff.
Seems the EPA EcoNazis have castrated the ZZDP out of diesel lube too.