Which model?

[jacksdad]

My restored bike is a 1977 XS650 D in Maxi Maroon, matching numbers, all good.
Now, my next project is confusing me
Its Bountiful Blue, which is the other colour option to my first bike. BUT..I think its a C model. Obviously anything could have been swapped, it started life in Daytona Beach and was imported in 1991.
It has got the early 34mm forks with 2 braces on the mudguard, as opposed to my D which has 35mm forks with just one mudguard brace.
The frame number is 447-203180 and the engine number is 447-206281
It came in boxes, with 3 sets of carbs, the inlet stubs were still bolted to the engine though, they are for 34's, they are the kind with metal shrouds, balancing tubes screwed in, and are only 38mm inside diameter, so the correct 38's wont fit!
Can anyone help me get the correct details, I will have it ready to use soon and need to submit all the details before I get a UK licence number

 

[kevski]

They are both 1975/76 c United States model, though not matching, there are two charts in this link.

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30569

 

[XSLeo]

On those charts the 75-76 is the manufacturing year. The manufacturing year is from August of one year to July of the next year. So a 75-76 manufacturing year makes those numbers 76 model years, in 76 it was the C model.
Your bike is a 76 C model.
On the carbs, the BS34 set I have in hand are 42 mm OD where they fit in the carb holders, the BS38's are 47 mm OD at the same place.
The BS38 carb holders I have in hand measure 47 mm at the larger diameter and about 44.5 mm on the rib. I don't have a set of BS34 holders handy. So can't give measurements.
Your carb holders at 38 mm, that may be on the rib. On my BS34 carbs the bottom of the groove that rib fits into is about 38 mm. So they seem to be the BS34 holders.
Are any of the carbs you got the BS34's? If so use them. Most won't notice or care which carbs you use. They both work well, The BS34's are a bit smoother at transitions.
Leo

 

[kevski]

You can get inlet Stubbs from Heiden tuning in Holland, they won't have vacuum Stubbs on them though, but they are easy enough to do.

 

[jacksdad]

So its a C, with early BS34 carbs, and later D Bountiful Blue tank and side panels
The paintwork is an easy swap, it was about 15 years old when it left the US so thats ok, but I thought the smaller carbs were only fitted to earlier bikes?
Theres a lot of confusion with carbs on all the range! It definately had the smaller carbs as the inlet stubs are too small for 38's, yet I only got 38's with the bike. It was imported in 1991 as a complete bike, then stripped by the guy I bought it off.
I've bought lots of parts from Heiden Tuning, for my finished D, I sent them a price request for this bike, for a 750 big bore kit, timing chain set, piston rings for the standard engine parts (which I'd sell), and a few cosmetic parts, but they haven't replied

NOTE! The bike DID come with BS34's fitted, I've found them in a box of other parts. 38's won't fit onto the inlet stubs...my mistake above!

 

[XSLeo]

Here stateside 70-79 got BS38 carbs. 80 up got the BS34's. There was a bit of overlap where some 79's got BS34's.
www.xs650.fi/phoja_files/fi/.XS650carbs.htm covers the BS38 carbs from 70-79. It was translated through a couple languages before English so the words are a bit tough but with the pics and a bit of study it can be understood.
The later BS34 carbs had just a couple changes so they are not so hard to work with.
Leo

 

[lakeview]

The neck sticker will show a date of manufacture which may be helpful when combined with XSLeo's post.

 

[650Skull]

Vin no is the sure way to decipher the models. Although the ID charts all say the production run was between Aug one year to July the next, i have come across models that have been a couple of months later than the cut off month, (July), but the model colors/tins/gauge/vin no match the July year ending model

Your choice on paints and decals for the US model C, First pic/brochure, or Euro model C, other pics/brochurs

 

[jacksdad]

Its a C, 1976, but has got BS34 carbs. I can't find any information on these, all the parts lists say BS38's were fitted! 38's won't even fit onto the inlet stubs, I've got loads of them, all the spares I've got are 38's but no 34's.
My carbs are in a bad state, they are pretty much seized solid. They have a fuel feed each, its a banjo bolt type on the outside of the carb. They have 'sideways' chokes, with a pull knob to operate, and they have a single throttle cable going onto the outside of the LH carb. Anyone got a diagram for these? Also, they have chrome plated steel tops, held on by 4 screws, all the ones I have, have got alloy caps. I'm stuck now, I'd rather refit the original type, rather than replace the inlet stubs then fit 38's

 

[gggGary]

They aren't XS650 carbs then. A lot of bikes used BS34's, XS650 BS34's have a push fit fuel tee that supplies both carbs from the middle.

 

[jacksdad]

650skull, those pictures are a mix of models. The black paint is a 650 B. None of the pictures show the C French Blue. My bike is a C but has got the D Bountiful Blue paint! My restored D US bike, was the other D colour, Maxi Maroon.

 

[jacksdad]

Its very odd! Why would someone replace the inlet stubs, carbs and maybe the trottle and cables, for a single one? The bike wasn't very old when it was last used, and its not been altered since it arrived in the UK, in 1991 (the guy who imported it sold it to me, he never touched it after stripping it down, but the carbs were still on the engine when I got it.

 

[jacksdad]

what neck sticker? do you mean the ID one, on the headstock? If so...its been removed! Only got the frame and engine numbers to work with.

 

[650Skull]

650skull, those pictures are a mix of models. The black paint is a 650 B. None of the pictures show the C French Blue. My bike is a C but has got the D Bountiful Blue paint! My restored D US bike, was the other D colour, Maxi Maroon.

Did you actually click on the brochures. The French Blue model is on the same brochure as the brilliant red C, it is small but still easily seen

The black one is a Euro C paint option, the same as the other 2 in the brochure that shows 3 models, 3 different paint options.

There were anomalies around the change over time between models so things arn't written in stone but the rule of thumb still applies until proven wrong. I have been collecting Vin's and talking to owners, to help to prove or disprove information on ID charts and the differences between models.
Here us a French blue US, Oceania, and other countries. Note the Changes between the 2 Black Euro models, Gauges, mufflers and the Gas cap on the Tank. One is a B and the other a C.

Note the position of the caliper and the side of the wheel the axle clamp is on the fork, the bracket for the brake line on the forks. US, Oceania and other countries got Specially made fork lowers with the caliper mount brackets on the rear of the forks, with the Axle clamp on the left side of the front wheel the same as all XS650's except the Euro B and C where the forks were swapped over and an extra tab for the Brake line was welded to the fork lower as can be seen on the pics below

 

[jacksdad]

I did, but didn't notice the French Blue insert. This bike is really odd, its like a bitsa, so many different models! I would expect this with the UK bikes, as they weren't a big seller here, and there were some mix ups during assembly, plus delays in sales, which caused some 'overlapping' of model years. The UK Haynes manuals are useless, their model specs are totally wrong.
I'm thinking of swapping the inlet stubs and fitting a set of 38's, I've ported the cylinder head so the bigger carbs will actually work better, I could then open the inlets into the 'D' shape...and fit the 750 kit from Heiden....
I'm going to stay with the D Bountiful Blue as well, I like it much more than French Blue!

 

[jacksdad]

Re the forks/brake, my bike is identical to the full page French Blue bike: just been out to my shed at 11pm, in the snow, to check the forks!
Just noticed something else: the side stand/kick stand on the bike in the picture is different to mine. The one shown looks like it has a complete circular hole in the stand, where it mounts to the frame. My bike has got a slotted fork type fitting on the stand, and a flat sided lug on the frame, and is again totally different to my D and my UK Custom. The stand is also very short, about 7" long and totally straight, with 2 return springs. Very strange bike!

 

[650Skull]

For ID purposes and to show the anomalies pics would help.

 

[jacksdad]

I'm working on that, just need to set up a Photobucket library and then I get some pictures
as you say, will make things easier!
I'm beginning to think that the bike was dropped sometime many years ago, as the headlamp bowl and 'ears' that hold it on are from a D bike, black bowl and chrome mounts, the C's were colour coded so should be French Blue or the matching red.
Still doesn't explain the BS34 carbs tho....

 

[XSLeo]

As some have said, if not on this thread but others, these bikes are like Lego blocks, These bikes can be put together with most any combo of parts.
Yes the 76 had linked BS38 carbs from the factory. The first year of the linked carbs, so one cable to the throttle. Even when swapping from the earlier two cable carbs you won't need to replace the throttle, just remove one cable. Any PO could have swapped in BS34 carbs. If you have BS34 carb holders and BS34 carbs then run BS34 carbs. With a bit of jet work they can work well.
From the way you describe your BS34's they might be XS400 carbs. They use the Banjo bolt fuel lines, but so may other bikes that used BS34 carbs. I think the XS400 had an idle speed screw underneath in the center, same as the Kawasaki EX500 carbs. Big black knob.
If they fit the bike then try them.
Leo

 

[weekendrider]

XS400 34's have the same spacing center to center for the intakes? I would have thought them narrower.