Will this blow up my bike? Can I get some feedback before I build the harness?

[JNizza92]

Sorry about the double post....
Here is the link to my original question, please respond with answers/concern there
http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22912

I have a 1975 XS650 that I am turning into some sort of tracker/cafe bike, this weekend the whole bike should go together, all that is left is to bleed the brakes and do all the electrical. My birthday is Sunday the 28th so that is the goal

I have just gained a lot of knowledge about electrical and used the diagram thread to build my own, I just want to make sure that when I hook all of this up everything will be good to go!

Any input is welcome, if you see something that could be done better feel free to let me know.

I am running a 277 rephase with electronic ignition (http://www.mikesxs.net/product/14-0904.html), also a halogen headlight (from mikes) and a homemade LED tail/brake light everything else is stock.

the yellow rectangle above the alternator/brushes is the connector that comes out of the left side of the engine

 

[ippytattoo]

The only change that I would recommend is to move the on/off ignition switch closer to the fuse block so that either the kill switch or the ignition switch can kill the bike.

 

[FrkyMnky]

You should move your main fuse just in front of your ign switch. Otherwise your rectifier can destroy the rest of your harness.

 

[JNizza92]

so put the ignition switch between the fuse block and where it is now? (on the brown line)

by "in front of" do you mean on the battery side of the ignition switch?

 

[CDNTX650]

that 20a fuse is fine where it is, That will kill everything if you short it. I would have the tail light permanently on as a running light once the key is turned on. Then your on/off if you want the headlight off to start etc.

 

[FrkyMnky]

that 20a fuse is fine where it is, That will kill everything if you short it. I would have the tail light permanently on as a running light once the key is turned on. Then your on/off if you want the headlight off to start etc.

Actually it will not kill everything... The rectifier is what provides power while the bike is running, not the battery. If I were doing this wiring I would set up the ignition switch and fuse both on the brown wire before the fuse block. You separate your power sources from the fuse block as it should be. You can search runaway rectifier and read what Pamco has to say about it and where he recommends the fuse go as he has much more experience with this than I.

 

[JNizza92]

I want all the lights on the bike to be switched, so the taillight being switched is fine

If the fuse blows right where it is then all power to the circuit is stopped, therefore it kills everything, correct?

 

[pamcopete]

jnizza,

The only thing I would change is the position of the main fuse. The way you have it, if the main 20 Amp fuse blows or just comes loose the regulator will not have the battery to stabilize the voltage that it is trying to regulate resulting in wild excursions both high and low, the high voltage then could fry things like the headlight and the PAMCO.
Also, the ground wire for the tail light should be run all the way back to the frame.

Make sure that the regulator and rectifier grounds are also frame grounds and not just to the battery box.

As far as the ignition switch cutting off the engine as well as the kill switch, its fine just the way it is because when you turn off the ignition switch you are cutting off both sources of power, the battery and the alternator.

 

[vr3506]

The horn switch should be from the horn to frame (ground), not in the pink wire.

 

[CDNTX650]

ah yes, i do remember the rectifier needing and un-interrupted hot now that i think about it and look back at my factory wiring schematic.

 

[pamcopete]

ah yes, i do remember the rectifier needing and un-interrupted hot now that i think about it and look back at my factory wiring schematic.

The diodes in the rectifier act as a switch because they will only allow current to flow from the rectifier to the battery but not the other way around.

Note: Technically, the current flows from the battery negative post and returns on the positive post. Same with the alternator / rectifier. The current actually flows out to ground and returns on the positive terminal.

 

[JNizza92]

Thanks Pete! That diagram makes more sense, so the rectifier "gets" all of its energy from the alternator and then send it back to the battery? Thus charging the battery, is this correct? and by putting the fuse before the power can go to the regulator I run the risk of the rectifier unloading all of its power directly into the regulator if something goes wrong. Am I understanding this correct?


The electronic ignition unit is good though? that was my main concern
I can have the key turned on and the kill switch closed and nothing bad will happen to the electronic ignition unit?

Will this work as my regulator and rectifier?
http://www.amazon.com/Electrosport-Industries-Regulator-Rectifier-ESR350/dp/B000GVC8RG

 

[pamcopete]

Thanks Pete! That diagram makes more sense, so the rectifier "gets" all of its energy from the alternator and then send it back to the battery? Thus charging the battery, is this correct? and by putting the fuse before the power can go to the regulator I run the risk of the rectifier unloading all of its power directly into the regulator if something goes wrong. Am I understanding this correct?


The electronic ignition unit is good though? that was my main concern
I can have the key turned on and the kill switch closed and nothing bad will happen to the electronic ignition unit?

Will this work as my regulator and rectifier?
http://www.amazon.com/Electrosport-Industries-Regulator-Rectifier-ESR350/dp/B000GVC8RG

The output from the rectifier / alternator does go to charge the battery, but it also is used to power all of the electrical system above about 2500 RPM.

The battery also acts as a filter to stabilize the output from the rectifier, which is controlled by what the regulator "sees" as a voltage, but because the regulator takes time to correct a high or low voltage, the voltage may go higher or lower than the regulator is trying for. It's like having springs on the back of the bike without any shocks. The ride would be very bouncy. So, think of the battery as an electrical shock absorber.

You should not have the key on and the kill switch on if the engine is not running. The way the magnets on the rotor work is to turn on the coil for 60 degrees and then turn it off until the next magnet comes around to turn the coil back on for another 60 degrees, so for each revolution of the cam shaft, the coil is on for 120 degrees and off the rest of the time, or 360-120= 240 degrees, meaning that the coil is off for 2/3 of the time when the engine is running giving the coil a chance to cool off for 2/3 of the time. If the engine is stopped, and the coil just happens to in the on state, then it is drawing current 100% of the time and will overheat and fry itself, likely taking the PAMCO with it. This is the same thing that happens with points if you leave the ignition on with the points closed.

 

[vr3506]

You should not have the key on and the kill switch on if the engine is not running. The way the magnets on the rotor work is to turn on the coil for 60 degrees and then turn it off until the next magnet comes around to turn the coil back on for another 60 degrees, so for each revolution of the cam shaft, the coil is on for 120 degrees and off the rest of the time, or 360-120= 240 degrees, meaning that the coil is off for 2/3 of the time when the engine is running giving the coil a chance to cool off for 2/3 of the time. If the engine is stopped, and the coil just happens to in the on state, then it is drawing current 100% of the time and will overheat and fry itself, likely taking the PAMCO with it. This is the same thing that happens with points if you leave the ignition on with the points closed.

What happens when the engine kicks back, just after one magnet has passed? Than this magnet will switch off, the next time you try to start the engine? If so, how do you correct this?

Is the Hall sensor a Latch type?

 

[JNizza92]

Pete, I think I understand the rectifier/regulator situation. I am still confused about the ignition on/kill switch on.

When I go to start the bike, I will have the ignition switch to "on" letting power flow through the switch, I will have the kill switch "closed" which allows electricity to flow through it. Then I will kick the bike over and it should start right up. Am I understanding the correctly?

If the kill switch is "open" (meaning that no power flows through it) then the electronic ignition will receive no power, is this correct?

So I need the ignition switch "on" and the kill switch "closed" allowing power to flow to the coils/electronic ignition so that my plugs will fire, right?

I must be missing something :\

 

[Scrambled]

to start you have the ignition and kill switch in the on position. You only need to have the kill switch in the off position if you are diagnosing electrical problems and need the lights on. If you have the ignition and the kill switch on when the bike is not running you will fry your coil. ( * at least that is how it works on my bike with the Pamco and high output coil )

 

[pamcopete]

Pete, I think I understand the rectifier/regulator situation. I am still confused about the ignition on/kill switch on.

When I go to start the bike, I will have the ignition switch to "on" letting power flow through the switch, I will have the kill switch "closed" which allows electricity to flow through it. Then I will kick the bike over and it should start right up. Am I understanding the correctly?

If the kill switch is "open" (meaning that no power flows through it) then the electronic ignition will receive no power, is this correct?

So I need the ignition switch "on" and the kill switch "closed" allowing power to flow to the coils/electronic ignition so that my plugs will fire, right?

I must be missing something :\

Well, of course you have to have the ignition switch on and the kill switch closed to start and run the engine. Just don't leave them on for too long with the engine not running.

 

[JNizza92]

Ok, so I will turn the ignition on, and close the kill switch. At this point the coils are getting power.

It is ok for the coils to get this power for a few seconds while I am trying to get the bike started?

So the problem comes in when the coils are getting power for x amount of time when the bike is not running, but as long as I am under x amount of time then I will be ok?

I guess what I'm getting at is that it will not fry the second I let power flow to the coils? It takes a little bit of time?

So I guess the next question is, "how long is to long?"

 

[pamcopete]

JNizza92,

About 3 minutes

 

[JNizza92]

Awesome, thanks! So that diagram you modified looks good? If so, then I plan on hooking it all up this weekend.

Also did anyone get a chance to take a look at that regulator/rectifier? I just want to be 100% sure that it will work