XS400/650 Neck Swap?

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Beags64

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Viable option?
Not worth the hassle?
Tilting at windmills?

Got an extra un-titled frame in a parts grab a while back. Ran across this on CL and thought might be just as far ahead as dealing with the Secretary of State office getting a lost title...
https://saginaw.craigslist.org/mpo/d/auburn-1980-yamaha-xs400-frame/7448506939.html

Doing the work's not an issue just debating if the ends justify the means.

Thoughts?
 
Not sure about the differences between the XS400 and XS650 necks.

If I was tempted to go down the road of swapping necks to get a "title" I think I would start by trying to find a XS650 to use as a donor. At least that way the frame and engine would both be correct for a 650.

Along that line I do have a frame for a 1981 XS650 with a clear title. I might be tempted to sell the neck off it for that kind of price. This is the old "Ride to work bike" I would have to check to see how rusty the neck area is, know the swing arm had some serious rust holes.
 
Will keep that in mind. Just rattlin' ideas around in my head, don't want to just scrap a decent frame
 
If I understand correctly, you just want the '400 for it's title?

Here's the easy way... Weld over the VIN on the 650.... grind down flush. Take your metal stamp set (20-30 bucks on Ebay or Amazon) and stamp the 400 number on the freshly ground 650 neck.... done.

I can neither confirm nor deny I've done this before. :cautious:
 
Jim said:
If I understand correctly, you just want the '400 for it's title?

Here's the easy way... Weld over the VIN on the 650.... grind down flush. Take your metal stamp set (20-30 bucks on Ebay or Amazon) and stamp the 400 number on the freshly ground 650 neck.... done.

I can neither confirm nor deny I've done this before. :cautious:
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Or if you want I could sell you the title for the "Ride to work Bike" and you could put those numbers on the XS650 and still be able to claim it's an XS650.

For that matter I could chop the neck off the one the title is for and send that with the title. That way if you don't like the looks of the "restamped" numbers you could take it to the next step and use my neck. I could even include a bill of sale for the one the title is for.
 
kshansen said:
Or if you want I could sell you the title for the "Ride to work Bike" and you could put those numbers on the XS650 and still be able to claim it's an XS650.

For that matter I could chop the neck off the one the title is for and send that with the title. That way if you don't like the looks of the "restamped" numbers you could take it to the next step and use my neck. I could even include a bill of sale for the one the title is for.
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Took a look at the frame of the 1981 I have the title for and to me swapping the necks looks like a major project at least for someone with my limited skill set in the welding area!

Makes Jim's idea of restamping the VIN from another one look like a better idea!
 
kshansen said:
Makes Jim's idea of restamping the VIN from another one look like a better idea!
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It's long since grew legs, but I made a steel plate with a slot cut in it that was the same width as the stamps. Clamp it to whatever you're stamping and you'd get nice prof. looking numbers every time.
 
Still on the fence as to what, if anything, will be done with this frame. Do have numbers matching motor, 447-209xxx, so might be worth the red tape to get a new title.
Also got a titled Special frame, 2FO-170xxx, and an untitled early frame, S650-214xx, and 256 motor, S650-124xxx, in the bunch so not really hurting for things occupy my time.
Throw in the bobber build that's moving at a glacial pace, the '71 sittin' in the shed and the '77 that still needs dialing in...lol
 
I wouldn't stamp a vin. It's illegal, can get you in a lot of trouble, and get the bike crushed. You might be able to register it in a state with more lax rules. I think Vermont used to work for this, not sure any more. I've gotten several bonded titles in Montana, including the one for my XS650. I had the Vin inspected by the sheriff, brought the paperwork to the DMV (I had to purchase a title bond), and got the registration right there.

If you need documentation, it might work to have a friend "sell" you the frame with a notarized bill of sale. Never tried it but I don't see why it wouldn't work. If you're going to do a vin swap, I would go with a 650 neck part, not any other one so that the title says it's an XS650. If you swap a 400 frame neck onto a 650 frame it's asking for trouble in my mind, unless you're building something unrecognizably removed from a stock 650.
 
oberling said:
I wouldn't stamp a vin. It's illegal, can get you in a lot of trouble, and get the bike crushed. You might be able to register it in a state with more lax rules. I think Vermont used to work for this, not sure any more. I've gotten several bonded titles in Montana, including the one for my XS650. I had the Vin inspected by the sheriff, brought the paperwork to the DMV (I had to purchase a title bond), and got the registration right there.

If you need documentation, it might work to have a friend "sell" you the frame with a notarized bill of sale. Never tried it but I don't see why it wouldn't work. If you're going to do a vin swap, I would go with a 650 neck part, not any other one so that the title says it's an XS650. If you swap a 400 frame neck onto a 650 frame it's asking for trouble in my mind, unless you're building something unrecognizably removed from a stock 650.
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On the one hand you say you wouldn't stamp a VIN because stamping a VIN is illegal... which we all know by the way... then on the other hand you say "If you're going to do a vin swap, I would go with a 650 neck part."
Both are forms of illegaly transferring a title from one bike to the other.... are they not?
So I guess my question is why are you OK with the harder method and not the easier?
 
I'm no legal expert but I don't think there is a hard and fast line where replacing parts of a frame becomes replacing the vin. It's pretty clearly above board to just keep the front half of a frame as you might do if you were building a hardtail, but what about just keeping a third of it? A quarter? Also, if you weld a neck from a frame that has a title onto parts from a frame that doesn't, at the very least you are preserving the uniqueness of that specific vin, which is part of the point.

If you stamp a vin, it's no longer unique since there are two of them and it steps from legal grey area into unambiguous felony. An Amazon stamp kit probably isn't identical to Yamaha factory stamps either it wouldn't hold up as well to scrutiny.

That being said, it's all largely academic since realistically, nobody gives a damn: Unless the XS650 becomes a highly sought after classic with loads of fakes being passed off as the real deal, there is very little danger of anyone looking twice. 😄

Still, if it were me, I would take the extra couple of hours and use the original, titled frame component. But I won't snich either way. 😉
 
oberling said:
I'm no legal expert but I don't think there is a hard and fast line where replacing parts of a frame becomes replacing the vin.
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It all comes down to intent in the eyes of the law. Both methods are nefarious if the intent is to move a VIN from one vehicle to another..

oberling said:
If you stamp a vin, it's no longer unique since there are two of them and it steps from legal grey area into unambiguous felony.
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Buy (acquire) the frame and title. Both are in your possession. Grind the VIN off the donor.
oberling said:
But I won't snich either way. 😉
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:laugh2: Me either.
 
Well just for talking thoughts here the title I have for the bike I have the frame to go with it is a 4N9009###
 
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