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XS650 clutch

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by inxs, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. Nils

    Nils XS650 Member

    Oh that's good to hear that it isn't possible to loose one of the balls in the trans, but to be sure today I took a small extendable magnets and after pulling out the first push rod, slide it down the passage and pulled out the center ball ( Which looked to be in good shape). Then I did it again and was able to pull the second shaft till I could see it end. I'm just going to assume that the final ball is in place as I couldn't pull the second shaft out. So it seems that I have all the components of the push rod assembly.

    However I do have a few other question:

    1) Can you push the push rod assembly in by hand and disengage the clutch? If so about how much resistance is there?
    2) Is there any way that the clutch could be jammed on/by something binding up?
    3) If I wined the adjuster screw for the worm gear all the way in to it absolute farthest in position, pulled the very hard clutch lever and though I can see the worm ratcheting outwards, the clutch doesn't disengage ( Confirmed by having it in gear and another person try to turn the rear wheel), does that condem the worm gear assembly? Or is it time for the RH case to come off?

    Like I said before, I had the bike running about a day again and the clutch was worked absolutely fine. The only work I did was installing a permanent magnet system in the bike. I have never take the RH case cover.

    Again thank for your time, any help is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. hein weijers

    hein weijers XS650 Special (5E6) 1982

    You could'nt pull the second shaft out? That's strange!
    Assuming the ball on the clutch side is there, the only thing I can think of, is that the ball in the worm gear is gone. Did you check that?

    Without the help of the worm gear it is not possible to engage the clutch.

    If you can wine the adjuster screw all the way in, thats not good. Again, check the presence of all the three balls!!!
     
  3. Nils

    Nils XS650 Member

    Honestly I think it was just getting caught on the lip seal or the bushing and the magnet wasn't all that strong so it was just popping off my magnet.

    Yes I checked inside the worm gear assembly and there is a ball in it for sure but I will check again.

    Oh, well that another relief as I was trying to push the push rod assembly in by hand to see if I was getting any movement and obviously I wasn't.

    Alright, I'll attempt to pull the second shaft out and confirm the third ball, however just to clarify, is there anyways for the third ball to fall into the trans or is that a absolutely solid passage?

    I really appreciate the help.
     
  4. Nils

    Nils XS650 Member

    So the secondary shaft is getting caught on the lip seal and I am unable to pull out unless I remove the lip seal which I really want to avoid doing.

    I checked the worm gear assemble for the ball, confirmed for sure it is there and even grabbed it with the magnet and moved it around freely in the assembly.

    I think I may just bite the bullet and buy a new worm gear assembly, I'm not sure exactly whats wrong with mine however it seems as thought if I can fully adjust it in with no change in function it is the weakest link.
     
  5. 650Skull

    650Skull Dinosaur Lives Top Contributor

    the shaft has a correct and wrong way to install.......maybe your 180 degrees out
     
  6. Nils

    Nils XS650 Member

    Could you please clarify.

    The way I have assembled it is the first shaft has a milled narrowed end and none milled end. The milled end goes into the worm screw assembly and the none milled end is what contacts the center ball ( In theory, I can't confirm this as I can't see.)

    I have uploaded an image of my parts ( First shaft and central ball.)

    upload_2017-9-11_19-9-16.jpeg
     
  7. hein weijers

    hein weijers XS650 Special (5E6) 1982

    The ball can not fall into the gear box.

    Is the worm placed in the right position, so that the clutch cable pulls under the right angle? 90 degrees?
     
  8. Nils

    Nils XS650 Member

    Thank you all for all your help,

    I have figured out the issue with the help of a vintage motorcycle mechanic friend I know. The issue has been solved and I'm happy to say she is back on the road.

    Turns out that some of the plates had gotten dry and where sticking together even when the pressure plate was released. What I ended up doing to correct this issue was putting the bike on the center stand, secured it and run it up through the gear being sure to spin it up quick and then pull the clutch in and give it a little more gas. After a few time, the oil finally worked its way into the plates and with the help of the centrifugal force all the plate released. I continues to do this for a little longer to ensure that all the plate were bathed in oil and then to test it I took the bike for a long ride. No issues, she ran perfect.

    Again, thanks for all the help. I greatly appreciate it.
     
    robinc likes this.
  9. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    That's quite common. It'll happen again.
    Do a forum search on "stuck clutch".
     
  10. hein weijers

    hein weijers XS650 Special (5E6) 1982

    You can also try to free the clutch by pulling in the clutch handle (in neutral!) and hit the kickstarter.
     
    Marlin72xs and TwoManyXS1Bs like this.
  11. Thorough must be your middle name. Does your wife appreciate you?
     
  12. Yes, every 1st start up of the day, I kick it while in neutral with the clutch lever depressed, until it frees up. It not only frees up the clutch, it primes the engine with oil and gas and also saves the cogs on 1st gear. That's something you can't do with an electric start.
     
  13. jay760

    jay760 XS650 Junkie

    I run an 8 plate clutch on my first meeting this year I had clutch slip, stiĺ going through th 1/4 in 12.01 seconds at 108mph but managed to buy some old stock barnett clutch plates which seem to be thicker but with more surface area, the dilemma is which would be better 8 standard as I've changed most of the plates or 7 with a slightly larger surface area.
     
  14. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

    Jay, an interesting math challenge. Each individual friction face receives full pressure from the clutch springs. 8 plates = 16 surfaces, 7 plates = 14 surfaces. The 7-plate setup would need each plate to have 8/7 the surface area of an 8-plate disc, to get total equal surface area. But, the individual plate surface pressure in PSI would be reduced due to that larger per-plate area. Then, you've got the other factor, friction material.

    A thinker...
     
    jay760 likes this.
  15. jay760

    jay760 XS650 Junkie

    Hadn't realised the pressure may alter I had assumed being the same stack height it would be the same, think I'll just have to see if my old clutch slips after swapping a load of plain plates and a couple of friction, and if it does put the new plates in, I'll have 3 runs before lunch if it' slipping I'll change it during the lunch break
     
    gggGary likes this.
  16. gggGary

    gggGary Stop that! XS650.com Supporter Top Contributor

    No that's not quite what he's saying. pressure per face stays the same so an extra plate should give 1/7 greater resistance to slip. I'd dive off the cliff but 2M will splain it better than me for sure.
    I will just say that with 8 new pressures one new steel and 7 reused steels Madness hasn't slipped once. Full disclosure; I am planning on riding it to Arkansas and back so have not "been beating it like a rented mule" recently. Still I've gotten in a few full throttle to redline runs through a couple gears. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  17. TwoManyXS1Bs

    TwoManyXS1Bs BBQ Hunter Top Contributor

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