Yam_Tech314's official build thread

[Raymond]

Oi certainly did not mean to suggest you were someone to rush in! You appear have a very organised approach. But accidents happen to all of us.

My brother in law, a very thoughtful and intelligent man, worked at one time as a mechanic. One day, he had his left hand all bandaged up. He had been holding some assembly, perhaps a brake calliper, trying to undo a very tight screw. He applied more & more force, the screwdriver slipped and went right through the palm of his hand. I was horrified but he just shrugged his shoulders and said 'It happens.'

I guess it's flesh v metal?

 

[59Tebo]

the screwdriver slipped and went right through the palm of his hand.

Ouch! "flesh v metal?" Metal always wins.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Is this normal??? What's the point of it being off centered if it is a normal thing
Both cylinders are like that

 

[Jim]

I wouldn't call it normal exactly... but it is common. As long as the bushing fits (and it looks like it will) it won't hurt a thing.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

What causes it to move??

Or was this likely done during manufacturing.

 

[Jim]

What causes it to move??

Or was this likely done during manufacturing.

Once the engines hot, they'll move pretty easy... but was prolly done during manufacture.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Once the engines hot, they'll move pretty easy... but was prolly done during manufacture.

If they move that easily, can they be removed, and replaced?? I'm baffled by this! Lol

 

[Jim]

Here, read this short How-To.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Cool! That's way simpler than I thought it would ever be

I also made a sanding block to clean up the surface.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

So, I'm trying to compile a list of ALL parts I'll need to do as thorough of a rebuild as possible. Thorough as far as seals, bearings, hardware, etc
Starting from top and working my way to the bottom (as this is my favorite order of operations...)

All things considered, I'm guessing the valves are alright, but if I pull them to check, clean, and reseat, I need new valve guide seals. What else would I need? Should I bother measuring my rocker arms? Is there an easy way to remove them and check the pin they ride on? There's a lot I haven't thought about...

In probably safe to reuse the valve cover o-rings, But I want to leave NOTHING out of this list, just so I have everything on paper, and I'll be able to inspect as I go, and make a decision as to whether replacement of certain components is necessary.

I guess this long post is really just asking for a thorough list, and good starting point...

Does such a thing exsist here in XS Land?

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

... Should I bother measuring my rocker arms? Is there an easy way to remove them and check the pin they ride on? There's a lot I haven't thought about...

Really, you should be measuring everything.

These are in the Tech section:
http://www.xs650.com/threads/how-to-remove-the-camshaft-rocker-arms.8530/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-top-end-buildup.52041/

More homework.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/first-time-rebuild-shopping-list.36361/
http://www.xs650.com/threads/fresh-top-end.48321/

We don't have a published list of consumables, the "must replace" components of an overhaul, for both "top-only" and "complete" overhauls. It was a standard list in the Honda shops back then, haven't seen one for the Yamahas. Just off the top of my head, and drawing on 40-45 year old memories, it's something like this:

Must-Replace consumables for complete overhaul:
- Piston rings.
- Cam chain.
- All gaskets, o-rings, seals, and crush washers.
- Exceptions: Valve guide o-rings, if guides not removed.
- All fluids and lubricants, all filters.
- All consumable ignition components: Sparkplugs, points, and condensers.
- All carbon brushes.

Similar list if carb overhaul is performed.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

That's pretty much my list... I wanted to take the rocker arms out and measure them, but DAMN the shouldered sleeves will not come out... Stopped trying before I got rammy. I'll come back to it another day. I'm already more frustrated than I should be...

EDIT: I'll try the 8mm socket method tomorrow. My mind is no longer in the right place to mess with it.

 

[5twins]

Worn rocker arms and shafts isn't very common. I just give them the "wiggle" test, just making sure they rotate OK without too much slop in them. Yes, valve guide seals should be replaced, they're 30+ years old. The valves probably need to come out anyway so they can be hand lapped back in to cure minor leaks. The valve cover o-rings can be flipped over if leaking. This presents a fresh, unused side facing out and will often cure a minor leak. Also, the 3 hole covers are symmetrical and can be installed in any of 3 positions 120° apart. Sometimes they seal better in one position compared to another so if you have a leak, try rotating the cover first. Don't buy the Yamaha of MikesXS o-ring, they're stupid expensive. The size needed is in the o-ring and seal thread. You can usually get a 5 or 10 pack for not much more than one o-ring from these other places.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Changed my mind. 3/4 of them came out squeaky clean and effortlessly .the last one... Felt dry coming out and smelled like wet-sanded metal coming out. Guessing it was spinning in it's bore and siezed? Had a later of blackened oil on the inner race of the bearing. Is this common? It was the rear-right rocker arms shaft that gave me issues...

 

[G_YamTech_314]

More pics of the problem area

×××EDIT. I inspected the other side, and realized it's actually RECCESSED and has no nipple there whatsoever. Is this evidence of wear over time? It feels like it prevents proper oiling of the right side×××

Noticed a few "flaws" in the cylinder head cover.

Also noticed a lot of grooving that can be easily felt with a fingernail. Explains the metal to metal smell perhaps? Must've been spinning in the head cover.

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

The dimple machine marks at the bottom of the shaft holes can be ignored, since the shaft doesn't go that deep, doesn't bear on that area. It's position is halted by a shoulder in the hole. Plus, oiling goes around that, thru the shaft's castellated end.

...Also noticed a lot of grooving that can be easily felt with a fingernail...

Now *that's* significant.
Recommend replacing the shaft and rocker...

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Guys! Christmas came early!

The frame is painted, and found its way home. In my new hatchback. That was a fun drive....

The paint job isn't perfect, but a frame with all the tiny spots and crannies is a hard job I'm sure.

It's a fantastic paint job considering I paid nothing in labor. (Thanks Uncle)

I'm blown away by how it looks. It's going to match nicely to the headlight bucket, and all the other parts that match this color.

 

[59Tebo]

Oh, that's gonna be sharp!

 

[G_YamTech_314]

I'm just laying here on the living room floor next to it, and all I can think is "it's still got that new paint smell"

The welded up rear cylinder mounts really look nice with paint as well. I'm a happy camper!!

 

[mrtwowheel]

I really like those frame paints that from a distance they look black but up close they are something different.

Scott