YAMALUBE

[G_YamTech_314]

I learned a great deal at school, one thing was that lube is your friend (wink wink)... anyways. Just read this on the Facebook group, but decided to share because I'm sure it passed by many of us. Below is the quote I found in the comments.

"Do NOT use car oil in motorcycles! I used to think that oil was oil and used all of the top car oils. The car oil has had the zinc and phosphorus removed to protect catalytic converters. Any parts like rocker arms, cams and rings, need that for lube. Without it, you can destroy a good engine. I know, I wore out a Yamaha V-Twin motor at 30,000 miles. Cams were all burnt and compression down to 120#, not enough to start it. Changed oil & filter every 3000 miles, never lost oil pressure. Now I use Mobil 1 or Yamalube.

I was at a Yamaha Training seminar at school that talked a lot about how to handle working at a shop, keeping customers happy, placing a suggestion for purchase wisely, etc. One of the interesting things that I learned was that you get an extended warranty (if not a lifetime warranty) on certain parts of the bike if you use ONLY yamalube in the bike, and get it serviced at the shop. They swear by the product so much, that they give their customers a good deal on it just so they can take good care of the bikes. What are all of your thoughts on this? I see a lot of posts about zinc added oils being important for top end and valve lube. Never learned about the zinc and phosphorous but its intriguing.

 

[650Skull]

ments.

"Do NOT use car oil in motorcycles! I used to think that oil was oil and used all of the top car oils. The car oil has had the zinc and phosphorus removed to protect catalytic converters. Any parts like rocker arms, cams and rings, need that for lube. Without it, you can destroy a good engine. I know, I wore out a Yamaha V-Twin motor at 30,000 miles. Cams were all burnt and compression down to 120#, not enough to start it. Changed oil & filter every 3000 miles, never lost oil pressure. Now I use Mobil 1 or Yamalube.

Here is a question............Do cars have pistons rings cams rockers????.............If so what is the difference between a car engine and a motorbike engine????.

Why would car oil destroy a motorbike engine if they are both a combustion engine????.


The reason for zinc in our 650 engines is clutch related. The wet clutch slips without the zinc......Some use diesel/car oil for older engines because it still retains the zinc

 

[peanut]

if the plain unadulterated mineral oil that has been used in our engines for the past 40+ years was not satisfactory how on earth have all our engines survived all those years ?
I think there is much marketing tosh & bunkam generated by Oil Manufacturers , car & motorcycle dealers and auto merchandisers etc .
When I first filled up the tank on my 58 Triumph Thunderbird back in the 60s it was 105 RON just look at all the rubbish they mix with our fuels today under the guise of 'protecting ' our engines.

Granted if we are running a high performance blueprinted engine for racing then there is plenty of evidence for using exotic synthetic oils but for the majority of our elderly agricultural over-engineered engines I have yet to see convincing proof that exotic synthetic oils would have any benefit whatsoever but I'm open to being proven wrong.

 

[Paul Sutton]

I am not positive on this, but I think there was a problem with the Yamaha V-twins regarding rocker arm and cam lubrication. As time went on the rocker arms were upgraded to have an oil feed-line directly from the rocker shaft down through the rocker directly to the contact area with the cam.

 

[Mailman]

Oooh an oil thread! Now you’ve done it!

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Oooh an oil thread! Now you’ve done it!

I'm just curious to hear others opinions. As it's a very important part of cooling our motors, as well as lubing it up nice and slippy! Except for the clutch as stated earlier. Looking forward, as I get my 650 closer to running/idling, I wanna do an oil change to see what kind of health my cam chain tensioner/cam chain guide is in. I've seen that if I find pieces of it in the oil it's best to get it replaced before problems arise. That being said, I'm just curious as to what I'd put back in it for lubrication

 

[5twins]

You're going to get lots of different opinions on what oil to use but something I think most of us will agree on is to change it often. The metal screen filtering system isn't the greatest so frequent oil changes are best. Most of us do about 1000 to 1500 miles between changes.

 

[GLJ]

My
Take what you were told at the Yamaha training seminar with what it was. A Yamaha propaganda class. They're in business to sell things. One of those things is oil. Is their oil bad? Probable not. I'm sure they are not going to sell a oil that would harm their engines. Is it the best possible oil you can buy? I doubt it. What is the best oil to put in a 650? I honestly have no idea. I know what I used back in the 70s and early 80s. 20W50 Valvoline "racing oil". Had good luck with that. Had a horrible time fixing a high rpm clutch slipping problem once. When I got to the bottom of the problem it had nothing to do with oil. When I get my XS2 running again I'll probably go with Mobil 1.
In my BMW I've always used Mobil 1 20W50. No problems. I know it don't count it has a dry clutch. In my Enfield again Mobil 1. It has a wet clutch and it works fine.
As I believe 5Twins and others have stated it's not so much that any one brand is better than another. The important thing is regular oil changes.
Now I'll sit back and watch.

 

[5twins]

Yes, the original oil recommendation for these was 20W-40. About the only place that sold that weight was the Yamaha dealer, lol. I've never seen a 20W-40 from any other oil manufacturer but Yamaha and their Yamalube line. Most of us use an aftermarket 20W-50 instead.

 

[Grimly]

Modern car oils are reduced in sliding-contact additives, as said largely to protect the cats. However, the drop in zinc is largely compensated for by an increase in other stuff that won't poison cats.
Having said that, I'm happily using car oils, and keeping a careful eye on exactly what goes in. I don't use any car oil that claims "reduced friction" and similar, because it's quite likely those will play merry hell with clutch surfaces. More traditional car oil without "low friction" additives has done, and does me just fine.
Fwiw, my bikes have had various additives over the years, the most common of which was molybdenum disulphide, which I added to the engines and final drives in the shafties. Any clutch slip I've had has been attributable to very high mileage clutchpacks, and damn sure not the oil.
My four-pots get whatever's available and changed every 2K. The XS gets a decent 20w50, and at the moment it's playing host to a couple of litres of Total Racing Oil, which I bunged in exactly because of its high zinc content.
These XSs make so many chuckling, grumbling, rattling noises even in good condition, it soothes me a little bit to know the oil is doing what it can to keep it happy.

 

[650Skull]

"Do NOT use car oil in motorcycles! I used to think that oil was oil and used all of the top car oils. The car oil has had the zinc and phosphorus removed to protect catalytic converters. Any parts like rocker arms, cams and rings, need that for lube. Without it, you can destroy a good engine. I know, I wore out a Yamaha V-Twin motor at 30,000 miles. Cams were all burnt and compression down to 120#, not enough to start it. Changed oil & filter every 3000 miles, never lost oil pressure. Now I use Mobil 1 or Yamalube.

I was at a Yamaha Training seminar at school that talked a lot about how to handle working at a shop, keeping customers happy, placing a suggestion for purchase wisely, etc. One of the interesting things that I learned was that you get an extended warranty (if not a lifetime warranty) on certain parts of the bike if you use ONLY yamalube in the bike, and get it serviced at the shop. They swear by the product so much, that they give their customers a good deal on it just so they can take good care of the bikes. What are all of your thoughts on this? I see a lot of posts about zinc added oils being important for top end and valve lube. Never learned about the zinc and phosphorous but its intriguing.

Its good your questioning what is written and what is said in seminars, especially when your getting into these old bikes. In my previous post i raised questions and this is the sort of thing your going to have to do to differentiate between the modern Workshops and the mechanical side of working on old bikes.........and information given as a specific..

A modern workshop makes money from the sales of the components required for servicing on new bikes. Its is all about getting you into the shop so they can sell service parts at inflated prices, Brake pads, oil, tyres, brake fluid, and if the service is not part of a new bike package then the labour costs are also high. This is where they make their money.

In a bike mechanics workshop, some one who works on bike from points to a modern style bike they will often have alternative parts at a more reasonable cost. Not to say they won't be making a good mark up but they know that manufacture specific parts are not always in their and the customers best interest.

If you can straddle the old and new bikes, learning how to tune carburetors and set points to tuning bikes using computer chips and EFI then you will be in demand for a long time............Keep questioning one eyed statements but don't dismiss all info just take some with a grain of salt.

 

[Mailman]

The only thing I would say is don’t waste your money on high price synthetics. The need for frequent oil changes doesn’t make them cost effective. I think 5Twins has said before he buys big jugs of Walmart’s inexpensive oil and has been using it for years just fine. I live in a hot climate and have always used 20-50 motorcycle specific oil, various brands, I’m not loyal to any one.

 

[5twins]

Yes, the Walmart house brand is what I use, and change it often. You may hear recommendations for the 15W-40 diesel oil. It works OK but the lighter 40 wt. (as opposed to a 50) will result in more topend noise. I tried it but went back to the 50 wt. because of that.

If your bike turns out to be like mine and many others, it never got frequent enough oil changes and filter cleanings in the past. That could mean lots of built-up sludge in there from the past. It took me probably 6 to 8K miles with the more frequent oil changes and filter cleanings to get mine all flushed out. The filters didn't start coming out relatively clean until then. So, your first few changes may produce some pretty dirty filters but it's probably not from your running it now, it's the build-up from the past coming out.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

Its good your questioning what is written and what is said in seminars, especially when your getting into these old bikes. In my previous post i raised questions and this is the sort of thing your going to have to do to differentiate between the modern Workshops and the mechanical side of working on old bikes.........and information given as a specific..

A modern workshop makes money from the sales of the components required for servicing on new bikes. Its is all about getting you into the shop so they can sell service parts at inflated prices, Brake pads, oil, tyres, brake fluid, and if the service is not part of a new bike package then the labour costs are also high. This is where they make their money.

In a bike mechanics workshop, some one who works on bike from points to a modern style bike they will often have alternative parts at a more reasonable cost. Not to say they won't be making a good mark up but they know that manufacture specific parts are not always in their and the customers best interest.

If you can straddle the old and new bikes, learning how to tune carburetors and set points to tuning bikes using computer chips and EFI then you will be in demand for a long time............Keep questioning one eyed statements but don't dismiss all info just take some with a grain of salt.

Newer bikes actually seem like a mess to work on, they aren't my go to at all to be honest, but if I ever do own a newer bike I'm going to learn to do the work myself. School has definitely helped, but in not so sure you can learn everything about anything in nine months. It's a passion, so time will teach me a lot. Just need to find the bikes to work on them.

 

[G_YamTech_314]

The only thing I would say is don’t waste your money on high price synthetics. The need for frequent oil changes doesn’t make them cost effective. I think 5Twins has said before he buys big jugs of Walmart’s inexpensive oil and has been using it for years just fine. I live in a hot climate and have always used 20-50 motorcycle specific oil, various brands, I’m not loyal to any one.

I think when summer rolls around I'll definitely he running a heavier weight oil just so it isn't running thin. The last thing I wanna do is kill my fresh build lol.

 

[XSLeo]

As I recall Harley tried denying warranty claims from using non Harley oils, they lost in court.
So that Yamaha dealer isn't doing right by their customers.
As mentioned a lot of car oils are not recommended for bikes. Mostly cars are designed around lighter weight oils with lots of friction modifiers. These oils have less pumping losses. This helps increase fuel economy.
If you look at most car oils you will find the starburst emblem meaning they are fuel saving oils. Most of these are 10w40 or less. The 20w50 is designed for older cars that have larger clearances and need the heavier oils to fill these larger clearances.
I have tried the 20w50 car oil Wal Mart sold but they don't sell it here anymore. The diesel 15w40 was ok. I now use Valvoline 20w50 motorcycle oil. Most parts store here carry it.
Leo

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

I found a significant difference in cold startup viscosities between Valvoline and Yamalube. Dunno why, they're both rated as 20w50.

Post #66.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/hp-oil-pump-from-mikes.40991/page-4#post-482782

For more, do a forum search on "viscosity", posted by member "Twomanyxs1bs"...

 

[cra-z1]

[QUOTE=" I've never seen a 20W-40 from any other oil manufacturer but Yamaha and their Yamalube line. Most of us use an aftermarket 20W-50 instead.[/QUOTE]
https://www.amazon.com/VICTORY-2008...t=&hvlocphy=9029626&hvtargid=pla-570362377161
Although its semi synthetic it is 20w-40. Vic did the same thing, now with their demise there are several other brands out there supplying it. I just use 20w-50 or 10w-40 valvoline MC oil depending on time of year. Also if I was at that seminar, and they made those claims about an extended warr if you used their oil I would have asked for it in writing.

 

[grizld1]

ZDDP (zinc diethyldithiophosphate) was present in motor oils to protect the sliding contact between camshaft and rocker arm in older valve train designs, like the XS650; it's not a concern in motors with later shim-and-bucket systems. Molybdenum additives are clutch killers. Even low quantities will build up on the friction plates in a fairly short time.

Tech, if you're one of the few who are willing and able to work on old bikes, don't worry about finding them--they'll find you! But you'll learn some hard truths about many of the guys who don't turn their own wrenches. The first time a guy tells you to "Just get it running," pitches a fit over the tab because it's more than he paid for the POS, and tries to claim that your work is responsible for the next worn out part that expires, you'll develop a whole new perspective on customer relations. Size up the customer before you take the job in, and don't be afraid to say no, and if they can't hear that, Hell, no!