Basic sidecar set up?????

Not sure if it was mentioned, but in the old days, folks would place a couple of heavy sandbags in the sidecar as ballast, then remove for a passenger...
 
My sidecar has ballast that works for it's living; a big ol' car battery behind it's seat.
Holds the chair down and has lotsa cold cranking Amps to spin the motor over real quick on cold mornings.
And if the bike's charging system ever quits I reckon it'll get me home from ~50 miles away.
 
My sidecar has ballast that works for it's living; a big ol' car battery behind it's seat.
Holds the chair down and has lotsa cold cranking Amps to spin the motor over real quick on cold mornings.
And if the bike's charging system ever quits I reckon it'll get me home from ~50 miles away.

Fred if my experience with the "ride-to-work" outfit is any example that 50 miles would be no problem at all!

Now to be honest I seldom if ever had a working "electric foot" so that kept the load on the small battery down to a minimum but I could do my 1 mile commute for a few months. The only way I knew the battery was getting a bit weak was the signals would get noticeably slow or stop altogether but bike never seemed to skip a beat.
 
Ok guys has been a little while and I have been busy but this is where I am now. I have about 80 miles on it driving around town. All I can say is it is a strange animal for sure, not a bike not a trike. I still have some electric issues and maybe carb/ign to work out but it runs not too bad. Very cold blooded. The small kids next door love it,and the wife thinks it's ok so all is good. Thanks for all the help so far. John B
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Ok guys has been a little while and I have been busy but this is where I am now. I have about 80 miles on it driving around town. All I can say is it is a strange animal for sure, not a bike not a trike. I still have some electric issues and maybe carb/ign to work out but it runs not too bad. Very cold blooded. The small kids next door love it,and the wife thinks it's ok so all is good. Thanks for all the help so far. John BView attachment 169086 View attachment 169086 View attachment 169086 View attachment 169087
Ok guys has been a little while and I have been busy but this is where I am now. I have about 80 miles on it driving around town. All I can say is it is a strange animal for sure, not a bike not a trike. I still have some electric issues and maybe carb/ign to work out but it runs not too bad. Very cold blooded. The small kids next door love it,and the wife thinks it's ok so all is good. Thanks for all the help so far. John BView attachment 169086 View attachment 169086 View attachment 169086 View attachment 169087

Hi John,
now THAT'S the way a rig should look! Like an aeronautical designer's mantra said:- "Simplificate and add lightness."
Sidecars pull left when slowing and pull right when accelerating and if you think it never goes quite where you'd reckon, you're correct.
A thing to try is hooking up the sidecar wheel's factory cable brake.
3 ways to do that, Parasite from front brake, parasite from rear brake or independent foot-pedal.
I'd recommend independent foot-pedal. S/C pedal next to bike rear brake pedal. Stomp both for better braking.
I also combo'd a salvaged ratcheting automobile handbrake into the S/C brake cable to act as a parking brake
Tilt foot to stomp S/C brake pedal alone to help a (perhaps overcooked) right turn or just for playing sillybuggers.
 
Hi John,
now THAT'S the way a rig should look! Like an aeronautical designer's mantra said:- "Simplificate and add lightness."
Sidecars pull left when slowing and pull right when accelerating and if you think it never goes quite where you'd reckon, you're correct.
A thing to try is hooking up the sidecar wheel's factory cable brake.
3 ways to do that, Parasite from front brake, parasite from rear brake or independent foot-pedal.
I'd recommend independent foot-pedal. S/C pedal next to bike rear brake pedal. Stomp both for better braking.
I also combo'd a salvaged ratcheting automobile handbrake into the S/C brake cable to act as a parking brake
Tilt foot to stomp S/C brake pedal alone to help a (perhaps overcooked) right turn or just for playing sillybuggers.
Thanks Fredintoon I still have a lot to learn on this outfit. I am not sure if I have it running good yet. I got this bike as a non running original with 8200 miles on it. It had sat since 2008. I cleaned the gas tank and carbs and got it running. I only rode it a block or two before starting the build. Along the way I has issues with the XS charge /electronic ign . I got that sorted out I think. As of now I only have ridden this rig a total of about 80 miles. I am not really sure how a 650 should run.I don't see it ever being a freeway ride. I have a homebuilt vw trike that I like much better (or at least for now) but the wife likes it so far and the neighbor kids love it. It's kinda like a pontoon in boat worlds. Thanks for all your help I don't think I would have gotten this far on my own. JohnB
 
Thanks Fredintoon I still have a lot to learn on this outfit. I am not sure if I have it running good yet. I got this bike as a non running original with 8200 miles on it. It had sat since 2008. I cleaned the gas tank and carbs and got it running. I only rode it a block or two before starting the build. Along the way I has issues with the XS charge /electronic ign . I got that sorted out I think. As of now I only have ridden this rig a total of about 80 miles. I am not really sure how a 650 should run.I don't see it ever being a freeway ride. I have a homebuilt vw trike that I like much better (or at least for now) but the wife likes it so far and the neighbor kids love it. It's kinda like a pontoon in boat worlds. Thanks for all your help I don't think I would have gotten this far on my own. JohnB

Hi John,
yeah, an XS650 rig is not a superslab cruiser. Swap the rear sprocket for a 36T and drive at 50 to 55 mph.
(I briefly tried a 38T rear sprocket. that sprocket gave 4 speeds + underdrive but was real quick off the traffic lights.)
Trail reduction is easy with XS760/850/1100 by mix'n'matching Standard & Special fork parts.
XS650 Standard & Special forks are identical but I found my rig's steering to be light enough to manage.
 
Fredintoon I have never heard of doing that . Is here a thread on the subject? It is something I would like to check in it may be worth it.
 
Fredintoon I have never heard of doing that . Is here a thread on the subject? It is something I would like to check in it may be worth it.

Hi John,
Trail:- the distance between where the steering head axis and the front tire meet the road.
The more trail a bike has, the heavier it steers The average solo machine has ~6". An ideal rig would have maybe half of that.
I found that swapping my XS650's 30" wide bars for 35" wide "tracker" bars made riding the rig with solo trail feel OK.
OTOH my XS11 rig steered real heavy with solo length trail.
(You can't change an XS650's trail by swapping fork parts because their Standard & Special models use the same forks.)
Trail reduction (moving the front wheel forward) on XS750/850/1100 forks is done by Mix'n'matching Special fork legs & Standard tripletrees .
The good news is it'll only cost you ~$100 in used parts vs ~$1,000 for a Steerite Tripletree.
The bad news is that you're stuck using the XS750/850/1100's Weird Harold swivelling front brakes.
And yeah, ballast. Carry a passenger-weight of ballast when you ain't carrying a passenger.
 
Hi John,
Trail:- the distance between where the steering head axis and the front tire meet the road.
The more trail a bike has, the heavier it steers The average solo machine has ~6". An ideal rig would have maybe half of that.
I found that swapping my XS650's 30" wide bars for 35" wide "tracker" bars made riding the rig with solo trail feel OK.
OTOH my XS11 rig steered real heavy with solo length trail.
(You can't change an XS650's trail by swapping fork parts because their Standard & Special models use the same forks.)
Trail reduction (moving the front wheel forward) on XS750/850/1100 forks is done by Mix'n'matching Special fork legs & Standard tripletrees .
The good news is it'll only cost you ~$100 in used parts vs ~$1,000 for a Steerite Tripletree.
The bad news is that you're stuck using the XS750/850/1100's Weird Harold swivelling front brakes.
And yeah, ballast. Carry a passenger-weight of ballast when you ain't carrying a passenger.
Thanks Fredintoon. So what you are saying is that if I get a 750 standard triple forks and special legs they will fit in my 650? But I have to use the stock 750 special brakes. That will fit with my stock rim and axel? Is there anything else I need to hunt up to make this work? Did I read something about a different fender?. Would I still need to change out the handlebars or is that not needed . Thanks John
 
Thanks Fredintoon. So what you are saying is that if I get a 750 standard triple forks and special legs they will fit in my 650? But I have to use the stock 750 special brakes. That will fit with my stock rim and axel? Is there anything else I need to hunt up to make this work? Did I read something about a different fender?. Would I still need to change out the handlebars or is that not needed . Thanks John

Hi John,
Installing wider 'bars is all that's needed to get lighter steering on a middleweight sidecar rig.
And it's also the cheapest and easiest modification to do.
I don't reckon doing a mix'n'match fork swap on an XS650/Velorex rig
is worth the effort.
FWIW, if you really insist on doing it.
XS650/750/850/1100 front wheels all interchange. .
XS650 front fenders will swap with XS750/850/1100 Standard front fenders.
XS750/850/1100 Special front fenders look identical to Standards but they're drilled differently
 
Hi John,
Installing wider 'bars is all that's needed to get lighter steering on a middleweight sidecar rig.
And it's also the cheapest and easiest modification to do.
I don't reckon doing a mix'n'match fork swap on an XS650/Velorex rig
is worth the effort.
FWIW, if you really insist on doing it.
XS650/750/850/1100 front wheels all interchange. .
XS650 front fenders will swap with XS750/850/1100 Standard front fenders.
XS750/850/1100 Special front fenders look identical to Standards but they're drilled differently
Ok Thanks. That is kinda what I was thinking. Looks like I will start looking at bars
 
Ok Thanks. That is kinda what I was thinking. Looks like I will start looking at bars
Not sure about in ND but around here they are all closed! You can get curbside pick-up at some of the micro-brew pubs.

Wait you were talking about the wider handlebars Fred was suggesting? Never Mind!!!
 
Not sure about in ND but around here they are all closed! You can get curbside pick-up at some of the micro-brew pubs.
Wait you were talking about the wider handlebars Fred was suggesting? Never Mind!!!

Hi Ken,
you gotta watch for the apostrophy, eh? A bar is a place to drink alcohol but a 'bar is for steering a bike.
And in Saskatoon you can buy alcohol on line and a masked stranger will bring it to your front doorstep.
 
Hi Ken,
you gotta watch for the apostrophy, eh? A bar is a place to drink alcohol but a 'bar is for steering a bike.
And in Saskatoon you can buy alcohol on line and a masked stranger will bring it to your front doorstep.
Yep this English language can be tricky like that especially for us former Colonials!
 
Ok Gang I have had some time to ride this beast and this is my take so far.
1. I seem to have trouble getting it into 4th gear at times. Just like I hit neutral then it goes down to 3rd or up to 5th.
2. I have to look at my carbs. I have a dead spot so to speak from about 2700 rpms to 3200 rpms. If you are going easy on the gas it gets real doggy but at about 3300 rpms it is like I hit passing gear and away she goes till you let up.
3. handles real good under 45 as long as you have a little weight in the car. No head shake to speak of. But from 50 on up you really notice a pull to the right. Gets to be a handful. So either I need some adjustment or more upper arm strength for this old guy.
So anybody got any Ideas???? JohnB
 
I'll leave #1 and #2 to those better equipped to answer them.

#3 I'm thinking the pull to the right might be somewhat normal. I would check a couple things first.

#1 would be to double check the alignment of the rear tire on bike to the sidecar wheel. Without reading all the back posts here I'm not sure what you set the toe-in at. There are I'm sure many thoughts on this but I would shoot for something in the 3/4 inch range. This is measured with good straight edges about 8 feet long, one on the outside of the sidecar tire and the other on the outside of the rear tire of the bike. The front ends should be around 3/4 inch closer than the measurement at the rear of the rear tire of the bike. I have heard some people say that if you set more toe-in then it will "push" the bike to the left, but my experience is more toe only causes more tire wear and more drag on sidecar making it pull more to the right.

#2 Once the toe is set good then I would try adjusting the mounts to lean the bike a little bit more to the left. Keep in mind that if the lower mounts are not perfectly level and inline with each other changing the lean-out will probably change the toe-in so that will need to be rechecked.

When all is said and done you do have to remember that we are dealing with an asymmetrical design here so finding a neutral steering point will be almost impossible. But between making adjustments and working muscles that are being asked to do things a bit different things should get better over time.

Longer `bars or modifications to reduce trail also help!
 
thanks for the incite I have changed out the bars to wider and I believe I set the chair at 1/2 " toe in.And maybe I should spend some time at the gym. JohnB
 
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