Removed Left Hand Cover to Replace Stator Brushes, now won't start-seized?

Hello,

So, my '82 xs650 was having charging issues. I checked the stator brushes and they were considerably worn, so I replaced them. In doing so, I removed the left hand engine cover, although in hindsight, I know I really didn't have to. While I was taking things apart, I realized that my vacuum hose coming off of my petcock was cracking, so I went ahead and replaced that while I was taking things apart. I also decided to put some seafoam in my carbs while I was getting my hands dirty as the bike just sat all winter. I drained the float bowls, measured out how much fuel was in the bowls. I then measured out the same amount of seafoam and poured it in the carbs through my fuel line, let it sit overnight and drained the seafoam the next day.

After putting everything back on, reconnecting all fuel lines and refilling the floats with fuel, I go to start her up, won't turn over. I try to kickstart, the lever won't budge. It is my understanding that this is an indication of a seized engine. While trying to assess what is seized I realized that my clutch isn't engaging--I can't shift gears. I have tried to adjust the worm gear, I still have the bearing in the worm gear. If I manually turn the worm gear all the way to the left with a screwdriver, I can get the clutch to engage and I can shift gears, but when I try the adjust the worm gear so that will make this turn with the pulling of the clutch lever it doesn't turn nearly as far as I turn manually.

I'm at a loss as to what is going on here. It seems odd to me that I have to mess with any adjusting at all as all I did was remove the cover for maybe three days while I got parts. I also don't know if this is related to my carb cleaning at all, or my vacuum hose replacement. I know I am getting fuel to the float bowls, as I can drain fuel out. Any suggestions on what to assess or adjust would be great appreciated. I really don't know what to try and even fix at this point.

When you changed the brushes did you remove the isolator block (the black plastic block the brushes ride in)?
The part about turn the worm to the left. When pulled by the cable it rises or turns to the right clockwise. The adjustment screw sits the depth of the contact point to push on the push rod. Not in far enough it doesn't release the clutch, too far in and the clutch won't engage.

Yes, I did remove the isolator block

Welcome. It is possible you might have put a long screw in the wrong place. This would damage the rotor and might be part of your problem.

It is the problem. OP you will have to take the stator off to look at the backside now that you've mixed them up. Or not. Helpful tip #2. When you put the stator back on the fingers and pins have to line up or you will break a finger off. If you need back-up for for that tidbit gggGary has seen a few.

Okay, thank you. Is there a place I should be looking for a diagram as to which screws go where? I will take the stator off tonight and check for damage.

The long ones (4) go through the isolator, the short (3) go in the metal brackets.
Pics of the difference in the screws and a rotor damaged by putting a long screw in a short hole.

Changed the screws back to their correct places. I checked out the rotor and there doesn't appear to be any scratches, surprisingly enough. Putting everything back on, the bike now fires, but I am getting gas out my left airfilter, but only when I am starting it. It soon chokes out after firing, too. Also, I am still having trouble adjusting my clutch to shift gears. Should I take the carbs off to check floats? I know my petcock is good. And, what is going on with my clutch? I have tried all sorts of adjustment and can't seem to get anywhere. I have done the 1/4 turn off of contact and tried to adjust from the handle as well. I really appreciate all the help.

The o-ring on the float needle seat can let fuel by-pass. You might take a look and see if it is shrunk or broken. xsJohn would use feed sack string as a way to tighten that joint. . . backwoods hickabilly repair. Get some clear fuel line and stick on the nipple on the bottom of the carb bowl. Hold it against the side of the carb, place the petcock on prime, open the drain screw to fill the line and check where the level is above, below or right at the bowl and carb body flange.

Clutch adjustment. At the perch screw the extender all the way in. Now adjust the screw on the worm. I run it in and back off an eighth of a turn. Others use different methods, BUT I think almost everyone runs it tighter than the manual suggested 1/4 turn. After setting the screw (don't over tighten the locknut or it is a beech to get loose again snug is fine) take up excess cable slack at the extender. I tighten till the freeplay at the handle is the width of a quarter. Again this is how I like to do it thing and others have their favorite gap setting. I don't have trouble finding neutral at a stop nor is my clutch heavy or hard to pull.

You are welcome and hope this helps.

The sea foam may have un-gunked something in the bowls, and now they are "sticky"...keeping them from moving freely. That may be the issue with the leaking fuel.

Sorry for the late response. I have been trying to do as much troubleshooting as I can on my own the last couple of days.

The fuel overflow stopped the next time I tried to start it. Maybe just a stuck float?

The clutch is adjusted and working.

HOWEVER, I still am not getting 14v when at 4k rpm. I found Curley's assessment guide and followed the instructions. I narrowed it down to the stator possibly being bad. I read 9.6 ACV on my white wires at the clip. Once removed, all the white wires are reading around .3 ohms of resistance, with or without the yellow line disconnected. Curley's is saying this points to a bad stator, your thoughts? Would just like to confirm before I go and put $200 into parts. None of the readings seem that far off of the desired specs given, but I'm assuming it doesn't take much to throw things off.

Thanks again for all the feedback, you guys have been tremendously helpful.

82xsHeritage said:

Sorry for the late response. I have been trying to do as much troubleshooting as I can on my own the last couple of days.

The fuel overflow stopped the next time I tried to start it. Maybe just a stuck float?

The clutch is adjusted and working.

HOWEVER, I still am not getting 14v when at 4k rpm. I found Curley's assessment guide and followed the instructions. I narrowed it down to the stator possibly being bad. I read 9.6 ACV on my white wires at the clip. Once removed, all the white wires are reading around .3 ohms of resistance, with or without the yellow line disconnected. Curley's is saying this points to a bad stator, your thoughts? Would just like to confirm before I go and put $200 into parts. None of the readings seem that far off of the desired specs given, but I'm assuming it doesn't take much to throw things off.

Thanks again for all the feedback, you guys have been tremendously helpful.

Click to expand...

9.6 volts AC is low. Normal is about 12.5 to 13 volts AC. Normal ohms reading across any 2 white wires (stator) is 0.5 ohms, so 0.3 ohms is low.

That could indicate a ground on the stator windings. Have you measured the resistance from any white wire to the frame of the
alternator (disconnect the yellow wire and use a high resistance scale). That reading should be very high ohms (ideally infinity)

You should also measure the rotor to see if its 5 to 6 ohms, slip ring to slip ring. Check its ohms from from either slip ring to rotor frame ; should be very high ohms.

weekendrider said:

The o-ring on the float needle seat can let fuel by-pass. You might take a look and see if it is shrunk or broken. xsJohn would use feed sack string as a way to tighten that joint. . . backwoods hickabilly repair. Get some clear fuel line and stick on the nipple on the bottom of the carb bowl. Hold it against the side of the carb, place the petcock on prime, open the drain screw to fill the line and check where the level is above, below or right at the bowl and carb body flange.

Clutch adjustment. At the perch screw the extender all the way in. Now adjust the screw on the worm. I run it in and back off an eighth of a turn. Others use different methods, BUT I think almost everyone runs it tighter than the manual suggested 1/4 turn. After setting the screw (don't over tighten the locknut or it is a beech to get loose again snug is fine) take up excess cable slack at the extender. I tighten till the freeplay at the handle is the width of a quarter. Again this is how I like to do it thing and others have their favorite gap setting. I don't have trouble finding neutral at a stop nor is my clutch heavy or hard to pull.

You are welcome and hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Do they sell a nipple that will thread in the bottom of the bowl?

cruzin said:

Do they sell a nipple that will thread in the bottom of the bowl?

Click to expand...

There *was* a fellow selling nippled drain plugs on eBay, but I don't see them now.
Might try a saved search on "xs650 bowl", or such, with notification when something new is listed...

This seller used to have them but it looks like he's sold out. I'm sure he will make more eventually. I bought a couple and they're very nice .....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carb-Float-...rFkbMpKdvTutaWLOvDm0I%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

9.6 volts AC is low. Normal is about 12.5 to 13 volts AC. Normal ohms reading across any 2 white wires (stator) is 0.5 ohms, so 0.3 ohms is low.

That could indicate a ground on the stator windings. Have you measured the resistance from any white wire to the frame of the
alternator (disconnect the yellow wire and use a high resistance scale). That reading should be very high ohms (ideally infinity)

You should also measure the rotor to see if its 5 to 6 ohms, slip ring to slip ring. Check its ohms from from either slip ring to rotor frame ; should be very high ohms.

Click to expand...

I was not able to measure the ohms from the white to the frame or from the rotor to the frame. My multimeter wouldn't read anything. I am assuming this is because is it infinity, but I could be wrong.

I hadn't originally measured the ohms on the rotor because I passed the slap test, and was getting within a volt of my battery's charge to my brushes when running. But, after pulling the cover again to check for any crimps in the stator line, I measured the rotor, and was only reading 2.4 ohms.

I guess this means I am going to have to replace both the stator and the rotor. Any suggestions on what to do from here? Should I look into going to a PMA system? Right now I would probably just buy a rotor and a stator from Mikes XS, unless you guys have some other suggestions.

I'm getting deja vu from this thread, as each problem you've encountered, I encountered. Even putting long screws back in on the brushes and thinking my motor was seized.

Mikes tells me you're looking at 320USD plus postage to replace the broken components of your stock charging system. I'd be thinking long and hard about a PMA. Or you could get a new stator and your current rotor rewound?

You have options... but the vast majority in your situation would put in a PMA.

If it were me I'd get the rotor rewound at Custom Rewind and a used stator from gggGary.
I would NOT buy from Mikes.
Post an ad in the classified's you will have an offer of parts pronto I'm betting.

82xsHeritage said:

I was not able to measure the ohms from the white to the frame or from the rotor to the frame. My multimeter wouldn't read anything. I am assuming this is because is it infinity, but I could be wrong.

I hadn't originally measured the ohms on the rotor because I passed the slap test, and was getting within a volt of my battery's charge to my brushes when running. But, after pulling the cover again to check for any crimps in the stator line, I measured the rotor, and was only reading 2.4 ohms.

I guess this means I am going to have to replace both the stator and the rotor. Any suggestions on what to do from here? Should I look into going to a PMA system? Right now I would probably just buy a rotor and a stator from Mikes XS, unless you guys have some other suggestions.

Click to expand...

Does your bike have a working stock TCI? If so, you do not want to buy a PMA, because your TCI would no longer have a pick-up coil, which mounts to the stock alternator. With a PMA you would have to also buy an ignition system.....getting expensive.

I totally agree with weekendrider. Its your least expensive way to go.

I do have a stock TCI system, so I will go with weekendrider's recommendation. How long does it typically take to have customrewind rewind a rotor? And about how much do they usually charge? I will call them tomorrow, but it would be nice to have an idea.

I'm glad you were able to steer me away from spending all that money at Mikes!