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Just out of curiosity - Airplane Guys
- Thread starter Downeaster
- Start date
There was an extensive write up on that in EAA's Sport aviation, after the feds got through. They take that kind of big news homebuilder stuff to heart.
For whatever reason Denver not getting a thorough checkout in THAT plane was a major contributing cause.
Trite but non the less true. It's better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, then be in the air wishing you weren't.
Accidents are seldom a single event, rather a chain of missed opportunities to positively change the course of events.
For whatever reason Denver not getting a thorough checkout in THAT plane was a major contributing cause.
Trite but non the less true. It's better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, then be in the air wishing you weren't.
Accidents are seldom a single event, rather a chain of missed opportunities to positively change the course of events.
Jus' to play devils advocate.. the checkout he got was pretty much standard fare back in the day. The Long EZ was considered a very easy aircraft to fly. From AV WEB....
Another Long EZ pilot (hereinafter referred to as the “checkout” pilot), gave the pilot about 1/2 hour of ground and flight checkout in the accident airplane in Santa Maria, California on the day before the accident, before the pilot’s departure for Monterey. He said that they performed two touch-and-go landings and some slow flight maneuvers, and that they discussed the aircraft systems, including the fuel selector location. He said that he had made arrangements with the pilot to relocate the fuel selector handle while the pilot, a musical performer, was away on tour. He also said that a pillow was placed on the back of the pilot’s seat to assist him in reaching the rudder pedals.
The checkout pilot stated that about a month before the accident, he had flown in the front seat with the pilot on a demonstration flight in the accident airplane. He said the pilot had also flown in the backseat on two other Long EZ demonstration flights.
For a 2700hr pilot who flew aerobatics, a Lear Jet and gliders, that should have... and in my opinion, was enough for a fixed gear, fixed pitch single.
3 things that are worthless to a pilot:
The runway behind you
The air above you
.... and the airspeed you don't have.
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Denver's pilots license was revoked at the time for DWI ticketsJus' to play devils advocate.. the checkout he got was pretty much standard fare back in the day. The Long EZ was considered a very easy aircraft to fly. From AV WEB....
Another Long EZ pilot (hereinafter referred to as the “checkout” pilot), gave the pilot about 1/2 hour of ground and flight checkout in the accident airplane in Santa Maria, California on the day before the accident, before the pilot’s departure for Monterey. He said that they performed two touch-and-go landings and some slow flight maneuvers, and that they discussed the aircraft systems, including the fuel selector location. He said that he had made arrangements with the pilot to relocate the fuel selector handle while the pilot, a musical performer, was away on tour. He also said that a pillow was placed on the back of the pilot’s seat to assist him in reaching the rudder pedals.
The checkout pilot stated that about a month before the accident, he had flown in the front seat with the pilot on a demonstration flight in the accident airplane. He said the pilot had also flown in the backseat on two other Long EZ demonstration flights.
For a 2700hr pilot who flew aerobatics, a Lear Jet and gliders, that should have... and in my opinion, was enough for a fixed gear, fixed pitch single.
3 things that are worthless to a pilot:
The runway behind you
The air above you
.... and the airspeed you don't have.
Read through this, found here; https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.homebuilt/c/CFLP9voMQqQ?pli=1
After purchasing the ship and test flying it at the exchange site, John Denver
ferried it to the airport from which he took off on the fatal flight; ferry
flight time was more than an hour. On the day of the crash, he took off, shot
some patterns, then headed out for some personal flying...and crashed into the
ocean. The ship he purchased had a 'non-standard location' fuel transfer
valve; it was located on the seat back bulkhead behind the pilot's left
shoulder. It also was missing a handle; Denver took along a vise-grip-like
tool specifically to assist fuel valve rotation.
Denver did not refuel in the time span between leaving the purchase site and
his crash.
Melville said it was humanly impossible in their tests to reach around and
even *touch* the fuel valve without inadvertently putting in some right
rudder to brace one's body.
The Vari/Long-Eze designs' strong yaw/roll coupling results in a right bank
with right rudder which - if not unchecked - can easily become a *descending*
right turn. From 400' one's reaction time is critical.
For the above reasons - and more, covered in perhaps 5-10 minutes of
presentation - Melville's conclusion was John ran a tank dry, and when the
engine sputtered at low altitude got involved sufficiently dinking with the
valve that he didn't mind the flying store enough to remain alive.
Additional possible contributors?: non-standard/non-intuitive fuel valve
position/tank relationship; firm valve actuation forces required.
FWIW, on the day of the crash, a line boy specifically asked if he should
refuel the bird; Denver declined.
My sad conclusion after listening to the forum presentation was John Denver
killed himself from ('the usual') string of inexplicable decisions which
'should not have occurred'. Upon listening to Martin Hollman's take the next
day, I concluded it was aerodynamically sound (insofar as the GU airfoil was
concerned), but speculative and probably erring due to distance. (So far as I
know Hollman was not directly inolved in the NTSB investigation).
Ever read the details on John F. Kennedy Jrs last flight?
I have. Like you said above... and like we were taught in the Air Force..... there's a chain of events leading directly to the crash site. Break jus' one of those links and we eliminate the crash site.
Interesting comparison though.... Kennedy's hours (experience) weren't anywhere close to Denver's.... somewhere around 150hrs iirc?
Yet he took on a flight that was much more daunting... in an airplane he'd recently purchased.... and a complex single at that. Reading that one I came away thinking that had he succeeded.... he would have beat some pretty tall odds.... instead of the other way 'round.
Not to worry though.... Jr should pop up on Elm St in Dallas any day now.
buzzword
XS650 Addict
Maybe a birthday cake for a female admirer?
'TT'
May 17, 1943.... the Memphis Belle flew her 25th and final combat mission.
To say the crew was happy would be an understatement.
Fully restored and displayed on 17 may 2018, she currently sits in the Air Force Museum in Dayton Oh.
To say the crew was happy would be an understatement.
Fully restored and displayed on 17 may 2018, she currently sits in the Air Force Museum in Dayton Oh.
May 17 1942, the Army Air Corps received it's first helicopter... a Vought-Sikorsky XR-4, tail number 41-18874. It was delivered to Wright Field in Dayton Oh... the current location of the Air Force Museum. Igor Sikorsky was at the controls.
That same helicopter... 874 currently resides at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C.
That same helicopter... 874 currently resides at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C.
I've always wondered how much his alcohol abuse contributed to the poor decision making that killed him.
It was a shame that the city of Memphis let her deteriorate to the point it had before the restoration. I heard that vandals and thieves had gutted the cockpit of most of her instruments. Glad she's back in shape.May 17, 1943.... the Memphis Belle flew her 25th and final combat mission.
View attachment 214501
To say the crew was happy would be an understatement.
View attachment 214502
Fully restored and displayed on 17 may 2018, she currently sits in the Air Force Museum in Dayton Oh.
View attachment 214503
Now THIS is cool - a remake of the hit movie Top Gun by the boys of US Navy VF32…
…..I give you Pop Gun!
CAUTION: the opening sequence is not suitable for Jim Dent.
…..I give you Pop Gun!
CAUTION: the opening sequence is not suitable for Jim Dent.
That was hilarious Pete.
A bit of vintage wine from the origin of it all.
'TT'
Ahhhh....the Bristol Fighter - the WW-1 counterpart of the DeHavilland Mosquito.
....a relatively big airplane that was formidable foe to all comers.
@MaxPete I heard a story from a UK friend that was familiar with the aircraft missions, saying one pilot decided to set up a grenade dropper behind the rear gunner. He built a box with a trap door that held the grenades with the pin wrapped in string, so when the trapdoor swung open, the grenades would drop, and the string pulled the pins, allowing them to explode on the target. They flew a low mission and upon return the fighter returned, wounded. One grenade had failed to drop from the box, and blew a hole in the rear of the plane, sprinkling the rear gunner with shrapnel. No volunteers could be had after the incident, so the idea was discarded.
'TT'
'TT'
Yup - agreed.
When you think of relatively advanced WW-1 aircraft like the German Fokker D-VII and D-VIII, the British SE5a, the DeHavilland DH4 and the Bristol Fighter, it is easy to forget that the Wright Bros. barely managed to fly a few hundred yards in a straight line at under 200 feet altitude, less than 18 years before these pretty reliable and powerful, fully aerobatic aircraft could reliably achieve 140 MPH and climb to more than 20,000 feet while carrying fairly heavy armament.
....ain't those engineers somethin'!
When you think of relatively advanced WW-1 aircraft like the German Fokker D-VII and D-VIII, the British SE5a, the DeHavilland DH4 and the Bristol Fighter, it is easy to forget that the Wright Bros. barely managed to fly a few hundred yards in a straight line at under 200 feet altitude, less than 18 years before these pretty reliable and powerful, fully aerobatic aircraft could reliably achieve 140 MPH and climb to more than 20,000 feet while carrying fairly heavy armament.
....ain't those engineers somethin'!
From the first flight of 212ft... to walking on the Moon in about 65yrs. Think about that. In one lifetime....
