Any HVAC experts around here? Got a question for you.

Last year I bought a new high efficiency Trane split system, heat pump and gas furnace. Now the company I bought it from is trying to get me to install a hard start kit. Which is essentially a big ass capacitor that is wired in ( series I think ) to assist in giving the compressor a big kick in the ass to start moving. It’s supposed to extend the life of the compressor. I’ve looked at the hard start kit online, it sells for approximately $125 retail. My A/C company wants to supply the kit and install it for $430. It seems a lot to me.
And the question that keeps swimming in my mind, is , if this is really needed to prolong the life of the compressor, why wasn’t it installed in the unit, in the first place?
The last house I lived in, I fell for the pitch and installed one in my last unit. So is this a bunch of snake oil or what? If I really believed that it would extend the life of the compressor, I wouldn’t mind spending the cash, but I am reluctant to spend that money unnecessarily.
Signed A/C curious in Arizona

Hmmm......I've witnessed a particular "business model" among larger HVAC cos. in retirement areas (Ft Myers, FL). I have a Trane system - top-notch - I'd think if problem on new - 1yr system - would be free upgrade from Trane. Color me suspicious. Also, if IIRC that's about half the cost of the actual compressor motor (so why?....)

jpdevol said:

Hmmm......I've witnessed a particular "business model" among larger HVAC cos. in retirement areas (Ft Myers, FL). I have a Trane system - top-notch - I'd think if problem on new - 1yr system - would be free upgrade from Trane. Color me suspicious. Also, if IIRC that's about half the cost of the actual compressor motor (so why?....)

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This seems to be a recurring theme, as I mentioned before, this is the second new AC unit I’ve bought
( different houses ) and every time they come out to service it, they want to up sell you something.
The last time they were out they wanted to install a whole home circuit breaker, this time they wanted to “ give me a free water heater flush and inspection” Hell no.
I’ve had previous companies tell me that I just had to install a sacrificial anode ( essentially a block of zinc that clamps around the copper line ) to the condenser line to save my condenser from being corroded.
It just seems there’s always something “ that really needs to be done or I will face dire consequences “

Scaring old people is big business; "avoid future regret". If they advertise on TV (esp. weather channel & westerns) and show up in a van full-wraped with fancy graphics, they're one of them...

It's funny... or maybe just "typical" that all the articles I've found that recommend the hard start kit are either HVAC installers or suppliers.... who then have links at the bottom of the page to entice you into getting one. I can't really call bullshit... but then, it is their bread and butter, right?

It's been my experience with compressors that the manufacturers design them with the correct starting capacitors and thoroughly lab test them. If a particular model later turned out to need help starting... well, I could buy that... but a generic (or specific) kit for all of them.... sound suspicious to me.

Based on the fact that all the recommendations are from people who stand to make money off you, my vote's for snake oil.

Oil additives and $100 speaker wires come to mind.

Jim said:

It's funny... or maybe just "typical" that all the articles I've found that recommend the hard start kit are either HVAC installers or suppliers.... who then have links at the bottom of the page to entice you into getting one. I can't really call bullshit... but then, it is their bread and butter, right?

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Yeah I noticed the same thing, when I tried researching the necessity of a hard start kit online, I only found endorsements by either the manufacturers of these kits or the installers.
I did find one good YouTube video made by a HVAC repairman who was troubleshooting an air conditioner that wouldn’t start. It was an older unit that had worn components and the compressor was having difficulty overcoming line pressure and it wouldn’t start. The hard start kit he installed gave it the extra oomph needed to start up and he said he probably extended the life of the unit by a few years.

^In that case it might really extend the life of the compressor, in the sense that it will be already be there in 20 years when it actually needs it...

Trane has a customer service phone number. I’m thinking about putting the question to them. One other consideration is that Trane actually makes an OEM hard start kit, I’m assuming there is a reason for it.

Yeah, if ya wanna fuck with 'em; ask what the specs are on the existing - genuine Trane engineered cap. - and what this replacement is: 370-440VAC, 40-60 microfarad & tolerance +4 - +6%. Bet that'll make him swallow hard

At the end when I was working with Air condition I had some experience in Refrigeration
The compressor is a fluid mechanic machine and the Capacitor is an electric component
The compressor has its problems and can stop working fex via moist air read water comes in and the ice smashes the machine . It does not take long time should the fluid ---Back then Freon gets air into it

The compressor is driven by an electric motor ( in this case I believe )
So depending on startup conditions I believe the Capacitor can help providing startup. Torque .
I don't remember hearing of it the 6 months I worked with it.

So the compressor system could back then I no ways be open to communicate with the environment
it had to be a closed circuit and very closed ..

So does it help at startup well that is Electric motor technology . And depends on the design
Perhaps if the installed motor is on the weak side extra components can help
But my first guess is no .

Take the hand held drill if you have a big drillbit in ---turns on the drill perhaps not turns and the coils can burn out
With a smell
Making the machine kaput

The compressors I worked with were piston compressors ( If i recall right ) as I believe household Fridges have
and even though could require extra at startup. It was not changing and could be taken into consideration by the designer I don't believe the startup requirements did change.
And I dont believe they would increase with age

I would ask for a technological description before I spent those sums .And Would look into what a replacement motor can cost. If separated.

It sounds as snake Oil ..getting a profit selling but one needs to see the actual installation
At the electrical side the compressor is not possible to repair if we are talking normal sizes
and effort.
A reputable firm doing the unit would not install a weak motor ..
On the other hand sales price is a factor selling a cheap unit is a sell ---That not happens on a more expensive unit
Perhaps there is a weak motor . It did not happen back then ..But it was more industrial installations.

Well , I just got off the phone with Tranes 1-800 consumer help. The short answer from them is they do not have anyone there to answer technical questions. They just want to refer you to the dealers…….who are the ones trying to sell these kits. And I’m sure I already know what they will say. At this point I’m thinking I’ll just get my regular services and run it till it breaks. And Trane has a good reputation for durability.

My previous a/c was a Trane. About 5 yrs ago we decided to replace it. There was nothing wrong with it other than it was always (marginally) too small for the house. During the really bad days it couldn't quiet keep up and ran around the clock. But it was basically unchanged since we moved into the house in '96.

When it was all apart I had a look at all the service writeups.... "installed in '82." That was the sum total of writeups. Installed 35yrs and never serviced (I did clean the coils every spring). I'd call that a pretty rugged unit.

Jim said:

It's funny... or maybe just "typical" that all the articles I've found that recommend the hard start kit are either HVAC installers or suppliers.... who then have links at the bottom of the page to entice you into getting one. I can't really call bullshit... but then, it is their bread and butter, right?

It's been my experience with compressors that the manufacturers design them with the correct starting capacitors and thoroughly lab test them. If a particular model later turned out to need help starting... well, I could buy that... but a generic (or specific) kit for all of them.... sound suspicious to me.

Based on the fact that all the recommendations are from people who stand to make money off you, my vote's for snake oil.

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Hi Bob:

Yup, I'm with Jim on this one. Reputable manufacturers do test their products and so it is unlikely that some generic product is going to add a lot in terms of performance and durability to whatever is already there.

The other thing is that in my experience, the most common problems with A/C systems are leaks in the refrigerant circuit - not compressor or electric motor problems. Electric motors are actually pretty robust devices in my experience (except on Chinoise power tools from Horrible Fright).

The most common causes of refrigerant leaks are:

• mechanical damage caused by foreign object impacts (quite possible on a mobile - i.e., automotive - system, but unlikely in a stationary "house" system)
• corrosion - which seems pretty unlikely in a place called ARI(d)zona.

I guess the moisture inside the home from people breathing, showers, toilets, dishwashers running etc. could promote some corrosion....but that wouldn't be alleviated by a big@ss capacitor on the compressor motor.

Just my $0.02 USD (which is about $14.36 CAD at the present rate of exchange).

Pete

Jim said:

My previous a/c was a Trane. About 5 yrs ago we decided to replace it. There was nothing wrong with it other than it was always (marginally) too small for the house. During the really bad days it couldn't quiet keep up and ran around the clock. But it was basically unchanged since we moved into the house in '96.

When it was all apart I had a look at all the service writeups.... "installed in '82." That was the sum total of writeups. Installed 35yrs and never serviced (I did clean the coils every spring). I'd call that a pretty rugged unit.

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Thinkin' back... I did replace the condenser fan motor about 10yrs ago. The thermal switch inside it fried.... but that was a G.E. motor...

Mailman said:

Last year I bought a new high efficiency Trane split system, heat pump and gas furnace. Now the company I bought it from is trying to get me to install a hard start kit. Which is essentially a big ass capacitor that is wired in ( series I think ) to assist in giving the compressor a big kick in the ass to start moving. It’s supposed to extend the life of the compressor. I’ve looked at the hard start kit online, it sells for approximately $125 retail. My A/C company wants to supply the kit and install it for $430. It seems a lot to me.
And the question that keeps swimming in my mind, is , if this is really needed to prolong the life of the compressor, why wasn’t it installed in the unit, in the first place?
The last house I lived in, I fell for the pitch and installed one in my last unit. So is this a bunch of snake oil or what? If I really believed that it would extend the life of the compressor, I wouldn’t mind spending the cash, but I am reluctant to spend that money unnecessarily.
Signed A/C curious in Arizona
View attachment 230044

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One of my best friends is in the biz and does work for me for practically nothing. He strongly recommends them. Mine has it.

Mailman said:

Well , I just got off the phone with Tranes 1-800 consumer help. The short answer from them is they do not have anyone there to answer technical questions. They just want to refer you to the dealers…….who are the ones trying to sell these kits. And I’m sure I already know what they will say. At this point I’m thinking I’ll just get my regular services and run it till it breaks. And Trane has a good reputation for durability.

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Well that is a tell in my books they are selling a technical equipment and don't have anyone hired to explain
what it is OK the days are gone with technical support perhaps , But I would not buy without a truthful and believable explanation. From one senior technical staff.
Often the first one at the phone is young people as first line defense so to speak.

Back then we used can it be Clamp Ammeter measuring the current per supply Phase.
At startup.
And compare to motor specifications to get a feel for margins,
But it can be illegal and dangerous And overkill .

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/products/electrical-testing/clamp-meters

Depending on your unit you can tell if the start capacitor needs help by how other electrical items, particularly your lights, behave when your unit kicks on. Any flickering? I agree with Jim, typically the engineering that goes into these units should be more than adequate. I’m also assuming your house is newer with more modern wiring. That’s another factor that can affect starting. I’ve had to replace capacitors and relays but never had any issues with a compressor.

Wingedwheel said:

Depending on your unit you can tell if the start capacitor needs help by how other electrical items, particularly your lights, behave when your unit kicks on. Any flickering? I agree with Jim, typically the engineering that goes into these units should be more than adequate. I’m also assuming your house is newer with more modern wiring. That’s another factor that can affect starting. I’ve had to replace capacitors and relays but never had any issues with a compressor.

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Yeah, it’s a newer house, and I have found more info that is inline with your comments. We’ve decided to let it ride as long as it is operating properly.

In a class 10 or 12 years ago at one of our wholesalers, given by an Ammana/Goodman factory rep, they recommended hard start kits for anything with a fixed metering device in the evaporator coil. Question was raised that since their equipment is shipped with fixed metering devices (TXV is an add-on) why weren't said hard start kits already installed. Rep danced around a real answer like a politician up for re-election...lol.
Hard start on an older unit will buy some time but chances are eventually failure is unavoidable. Have seen them run for years like that and have seen them puke magic smoke within a few days....hell, my 13 year old unit has had a hard start on it for 4 or 5 years now...lol.

After 25+ years in the trade and having worked on almost every brand of equipment out there I'll hold my thoughts on one manufacture over another. No different than anything else you buy, there's good ones and then there's lemons