The start-up (esp. cold) advantage of the PMA may also result from no Field coil drawing ~28 -30 Watts when the key is turned on.
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Electric vs Kick start
- Thread starter DPCDPC
- Start date
Never been able to understand why people eliminate the Electric start, (racing people exempted)...........the common answer/theme seems is, having a kick start is macho/cool,
showing your a real biker, the public around you
when the bike is being started/kicked over are just so impressed with that leg action..............
Why, or how, would they, (adoring public watching), know if the start button was still engaged
..............just kick it over.........i guess if the owner still has it, (start button), intact then some where in the recesses of their mind they cant call them selves a biker or they could/might slip up
, accidentally use the electric
............shock horror gasp, those watching would look at you with such dis-stain
you would quit riding bikes altogether.......
showing your a real biker, the public around you when the bike is being started/kicked over are just so impressed with that leg action..............Why, or how, would they, (adoring public watching), know if the start button was still engaged
..............just kick it over.........i guess if the owner still has it, (start button), intact then some where in the recesses of their mind they cant call them selves a biker or they could/might slip up, accidentally use the electric............shock horror gasp, those watching would look at you with such dis-stain you would quit riding bikes altogether.......LTGTR
XS650 Addict
Skull - your on the money with me.
I bought a brand new Trident T160 and the second day I owned it I removed the electric start for the exact reason you said - it wasnt cool.
I sold the bike to my brother in law, a member of the local outlaw motorcycle gang, and yes he looked like your typical tough and rough bikie, the first thing he did was refit the electric start.
Regards Ray.
I bought a brand new Trident T160 and the second day I owned it I removed the electric start for the exact reason you said - it wasnt cool.
I sold the bike to my brother in law, a member of the local outlaw motorcycle gang, and yes he looked like your typical tough and rough bikie, the first thing he did was refit the electric start.
Regards Ray.
I think a good reason that XS starter motors get junked is that it isn't exactly the best electric start system in the world.
OK it's probably better than Norton's dreadful final Commando, or Triumph's T140ES, but it was still added as an afterthought.
Using an automotive type bendix gear to ram the drive pinion into the crankshaft isn't good engineering, in my opinion, I know that the pinion teeth are deliberately made of softer material than the crank teeth, but all those tiny flakes of hard steel are going into your engine oil, round the oil pump, bearings etc, until one of the magnets gets them
OK it's probably better than Norton's dreadful final Commando, or Triumph's T140ES, but it was still added as an afterthought.
Using an automotive type bendix gear to ram the drive pinion into the crankshaft isn't good engineering, in my opinion, I know that the pinion teeth are deliberately made of softer material than the crank teeth, but all those tiny flakes of hard steel are going into your engine oil, round the oil pump, bearings etc, until one of the magnets gets them
I carried my starter as ballast for about 10 years. I finally decided to fix it. I believe I replaced the motor was all.
He certainly wasn't a poser!
Oldnwiser
XS650 Enthusiast
Have you ever seen the picture of the Yamaha with a pulley and a bracket with a little 4 cylinder Ford alternator and a belt running back to the alt pulley and wired to the battery? That was hilarious. I guess I m odd, but I always kicked the bike to start the only time I used the electric is if I stalled in traffic. Now that I’m blind it doesn’t matter. I can take it off and cap it. If I do ride it will be because these eye exercises work or I’ll be taking a 1 way trip to the promised land.
Oldnwiser
XS650 Enthusiast
I almost dislocated a knee half hearted kicking a 1000 Sportster and it kicked my knee right into that F’d up handlebar set they had. I have gotten into the habit of kicking any bike on the right side with my right foot on the ground and kicking with my weight on my left foot, and I kick it through. It can’t kick back.
ckahleer
XS650 Addict
I bought a new water bufflo in 73. After a year, the battery became to week to e-start the bike so I started using the kick starter. I sold that bike in 82 after putting 36,000 miles on it. I never did get around to replacing the battery.
It keeps 14-something volts on the battery. The bike might could use a battery with higher CCA than spec'd; I don't know if that would require more current than the alternator can supply, or the starter might be too weak. It's usable most of the time though. But like everyone is saying, kick is a lifesaver on those thick oil mornings.
What is a water buffalo in motorcycle lingo?
I see mention of an agm battery w more cca and ah than the stock uasa, does anyone know of a lead acid, regular wet battery w more cca and ah that is the same size, with same terminal lay out as the stock?
1970s Suzuki GT750 - water-cooled, three cylinder 2-stroke. Water cooling was unusual in them far-off days.
PS Sorry, crossed with Toglhot
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Them 2 smokes are easy to kick.
A high compression Norton that's wet sumped on a cold morning? You'll bend the lever before that beast comes alive.
A barn find Honda 750 that hadn't run in 5 years; Checking spark with one sparkplug out and the float bowls opened to drain started on the second kick!
Madness, Pamco with E-advance, has taken to kicking back now and then, . NEVER lock your knee....
I've done a lot of arch injuries over the years, wear boots with a stiff sole if there's ANY question of grumpy starting..
The kick-start on my xs kicked back badly before I realised the timing was out, I've still got a sore ankle some days and that's months later.
I still prefer to kick it rather than resort to the less than perfect electric starter.
I still prefer to kick it rather than resort to the less than perfect electric starter.
Just for grins was out in the shed at 8AM, temps held at zero F overnight, and tried kicking:
The Norton wheezed through a couple of levers, came up on compression, game over, lever was done moving.
XS1 kicked through several times. I think if I HAD to get'r going it could happen.
With a hair dryer on the carbs, head for 10 minutes it prolly wouldn't take much to fire it up.
But NOT happening. I was out cuz, filling the wood boxes. Tending the fires seems like a better plan this Christmas day.
Snowshoe Art near Terrace Bay, Ontario.
The Norton wheezed through a couple of levers, came up on compression, game over, lever was done moving.
XS1 kicked through several times. I think if I HAD to get'r going it could happen.
With a hair dryer on the carbs, head for 10 minutes it prolly wouldn't take much to fire it up.
But NOT happening. I was out cuz, filling the wood boxes. Tending the fires seems like a better plan this Christmas day.
Snowshoe Art near Terrace Bay, Ontario.
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I'm glad we have a kicker. I use it all the time in colder weather for the first start of the day. The e-start can struggle under those conditions. Once the bike has been run and the oil is warmed and thinned, the e-start works fine. These bikes don't have a real big battery so there's not a lot of reserve power there. Sustained cranking will quickly run it down. Also, the ignition needs power from the battery to function at start up. Run it down some and the e-start may still work but there may not be enough battery power left over to power the ignition. The bike will crank but not start. So, in my opinion, kick starting for the 1st start of the day in colder weather is the best practice.
Now let's talk about the kick arm. Yamaha used several different ones over the years and yes, I do have a favorite, the '79-'80 arm. '78 and older arms were straight. In '79, a slight inward bend was added. This folds in nicer and tighter to the engine .....
In '81, Yamaha cheapened the assembly up, making the arm thinner, the foot portion smaller, and the splined clamp smaller as well. It's not as easy to get a good, strong kick with this later arm .....
So, I've swapped '79-'80 kick arms onto both of my 650s. My '78 originally had the straight arm and my '83 had that spindly late version.
A little mod I like to do to all these is add a grease fitting to the pivot. Even though I always kept it oiled, it seemed every time I went to fold the arm out, it was stuck. Obviously, it needed more, oil wasn't cutting it here. It needed grease .....
Incidentally, the ball used in the kicker assembly is the same 5/16" size you'll find in the clutch pushrod assembly.
Now let's talk about the kick arm. Yamaha used several different ones over the years and yes, I do have a favorite, the '79-'80 arm. '78 and older arms were straight. In '79, a slight inward bend was added. This folds in nicer and tighter to the engine .....
In '81, Yamaha cheapened the assembly up, making the arm thinner, the foot portion smaller, and the splined clamp smaller as well. It's not as easy to get a good, strong kick with this later arm .....
So, I've swapped '79-'80 kick arms onto both of my 650s. My '78 originally had the straight arm and my '83 had that spindly late version.
A little mod I like to do to all these is add a grease fitting to the pivot. Even though I always kept it oiled, it seemed every time I went to fold the arm out, it was stuck. Obviously, it needed more, oil wasn't cutting it here. It needed grease .....
Incidentally, the ball used in the kicker assembly is the same 5/16" size you'll find in the clutch pushrod assembly.
Oldnwiser
XS650 Enthusiast
That cheap later arm should have been outlawed. If you kick it all the way down even it is still in kick back territory and the arm that was on my 79 lower end happened to be the rrrrrrrrrrrr one. After rebuilding it as a 700cc 9.25:1 top end with a points and advance settup and 14 degrees initial and a total of 38 with a quick curve, no electric start. A kind of a punk bike with the shocks tilted forward and the back hoop cut off and a piece between the. shocks welded in and a spring seat with a torsion bar underneath the seat and valve springs on the back. Anyway I had a bruise down my leg from that lever just because people were hoarding the 79 levers.
. That thing was vicious about it and my stupid stubbing was in denial. The right lever was the original and it kicked like a mule. I sold it because a concussion with a skull fracture took my vision. I still love that bike and that engine was like no 360 twin I ever had. My son wouldn’t ride it. The torque was to be experienced and up to 7500 it never relented. But that bruise up my right calf. I kept my left foot on the ground and kicked with the right foot and 6out of 10 times it ran up my inner calf.That spindly later arm with the smaller "foot" does suck, lol. I was lucky enough to find a nice '79 arm on eBay for around $20. It was just the arm, no splined mount, but that was fine because I had one. I guess I should mention that the splined mount differs as well. The later one has a smaller diameter pivot post so the older, beefier arm won't mount on it.
