Any vintage car guys here?

ThatXS650Guy said:

I was washing the pollen off of the Jeep today and snapped a pic. This was father-son project and now I just keep it maintained and drive it once in a while since my Army Lt. son is stationed out West. View attachment 191675

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46th Georgia said:

Kinda like I used to say about Smart cars (we, Brumos, were a dealer) a Honda Gold Wing had more luggage space and got better gas mileage. The only advantage a Smart had was A/C and you didn't get wet

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MaxPete said:

....and everyone knows that you are the type of guy who wears sock under their sandals.

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MaxPete said:

So, I have served on an engineering regulatory committee with a guy for about 26 years and at our last meeting in November/2022 he said, "Pete, you know a lot about cars and you know car people - do you know anyone who likes antique cars?" I replied that I like antique cars and so he told me that he had an old pickup truck for sale - and he showed me a picture of it. The vehicle was in Kingston, ON - about 600 km east of us (around 370 miles) but it just so happens that Mrs. MaxPete's mum and my little sister live there and we were going there for Christmas - sooo, on Boxing Day, we went to see the truck - and I wound up buying it.

It is a 1920 Model T that is fully restored (but in completely unmodified condition), everything works - including the electric starter - and it runs like a top. My grandfather had one just like it in the 1920s - in fact, he came from a farm near Mountain Grove, a village about 50 miles due north of Kingston, and his truck was the first motor vehicle registered in the township of Olden.
View attachment 233589

This a view of the left-side (i.e. driver's side) of the engine. Visible are the horn just above the electric starter, the cooling fan and its drive belt, the very simple thermosyphon cooling system (no water pump), the steering column with the two control rods for the throttle and the manual ignition advance, the distributor-less ignition system (the sparks are made in a wooden box mounted below the dashboard inside the cab) and the entire electrical wiring system of the truck - mounted on the wooden firewall.
View attachment 233590

Here is the right hand side of the engine compartment. Note the word "Canada" cast into the top of the cylinder head - this vehicle was built right here in Windsor, ON about 5 km (3 miles) from my office! The engine is a 177 cu.in. (2.9 litre) cast iron inline flathead four that produces about 20 hp. It uses splash lubrication (so no oil pump and no oil filter), a thermosyphon cooling circuit (so no water pump), a "trembler coil buzz-box" ignition (so no distributor) with a flywheel-mounted magneto.

You can run on the battery or the magneto. The trembler-coil "spark-maker" is interesting: when you turn the key to "Battery" they buzz - making a sound that is somewhat like a rattlesnake. The fuel tank is in the cowl above the occupant's knees (YIKES!!) - so no fuel pump - but there is a petcock just like on our bikes (although it is manual and not vacuum actuated). There is no vacuum system on the car, and with a compression ratio of only about 5:1, it likely wouldn't work very well anyway.

The transmission is a two-speed planetary unit with engagement bands and a band brake (the only brake on the vehicle). All of the tranny and brake bands are lined with cotton strips, although modern Kevlar-lined replacements are available. In fact, it appears that just about all the parts are available as well as a whole whackload of aftermarket stuff like two-speed rear axles and actual wheel brakes etc. etc.
The only modern convenience is an electric starter to complement the hand crank - but otherwise, it is truly, a basic machine!
View attachment 233591

Below is view of the truck's interior. The 3-pedal driving system takes a fair bit of getting used to:

• the left-hand pedal engages low gear (mash it to the floor to "go"),
• the right-hand pedal is the brake (YIKES!) and,
• the middle pedal is for reverse gear (when mashed down).

The big lever on the left side (barely visible) is the handbrake (when pulled back), neutral (when in the central position) and high gear (when the lever is pushed forward). All of this results in a somewhat "busy" driving experience that was dubbed the "Model T Dance" - and yet, oddly, this perfectly logical control setup never caught on....for some reason. Poor Henry - he only built 15 million Model Ts...second only to the VW Beetle.

The throttle is the stalk on the RHS of the steering column and the manual spark advance is on the LHS of the column. There is no heater, no side windows, no rearview mirrors (although Chris has one hung on the rim of the windscreen), no speedometer, no turn signals and no brake lights.
This thing makes an XS650 seem like a high-tech, ultra-modern wizard-mobile.
View attachment 233592

And here we are, all set for a run into town to the hardware store.....at the top speed of about 40 MPH - but since the only brake is in the transmission (no wheel brakes), that is probably fast enough.
I sure hope the driveshaft never fails......
View attachment 233593

....or perhaps a day motoring al fresco to the market or the beach with my lady-friend.
View attachment 233594

The cool thing (for me at least) is that it is a Canadian vehicle that was built 102 years ago, right here in Windsor, Ontario (zoom in on the RHS of the cylinder head casting and you will see "Canada").

It has a left side door which only Canadian-built "T"s had because they were mainly intended for the British Empire markets in which people drive on the wrong side of the road. The rationale is that the brake / clutch / high gear lever beside the driver's position effectively blocks the door - and so it is customary to enter the vehicle on the passenger side and slide across to the driver's position. Thus, in North America, you really only need a door on the right side, but in right-hand drive markets like the UK, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa etc., you need a door on the left side.

Henry was an ambitious fellow and wanted to be able to export his products around the world, so he incorporated Ford of Canada in 1904 - just after he started the Ford Motor Co. in Detroit. Windsor was the closest he could get to Detroit - while gaining duty-free access to the British Empire market. Thus, Ford built the Canadian cars with doors on both sides so that they could easily be exported (duty free) to British Empire markets and many Canadian-built Ts were exported to those markets with all RH drive controls. Ford still has major engine-building operations including a foundry and an aluminium casting plant here in the City and I have many friends who work there.

Anyhow, I don't have the truck yet - my buddy is delivering it in the spring (he has a big trailer). I will report again when I get it down here and, hopefully, figure out how the heck to drive it.

Pete

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bosco659 said:

Wow what a great vehicle. I like the story about your grandfather. Mountain Grove is about 5 km from our cottage in Arden! I’d like to see this one day. It will have a nice warm place to rest once your shop has been completed! Congratulations.

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46th Georgia said:

I don't own sandals, Crocs or flip-flops. Boots and sneakers only.

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MaxPete said:

So, I have served on an engineering regulatory committee with a guy for about 26 years and at our last meeting in November/2022 he said, "Pete, you know a lot about cars and you know car people - do you know anyone who likes antique cars?" I replied that I like antique cars and so he told me that he had an old pickup truck for sale - and he showed me a picture of it. The vehicle was in Kingston, ON - about 600 km east of us (around 370 miles) but it just so happens that Mrs. MaxPete's mum and my little sister live there and we were going there for Christmas - sooo, on Boxing Day, we went to see the truck - and I wound up buying it.

It is a 1920 Model T that is fully restored (but in completely unmodified condition), everything works - including the electric starter - and it runs like a top. My grandfather had one just like it in the 1920s - in fact, he came from a farm near Mountain Grove, a village about 50 miles due north of Kingston, and his truck was the first motor vehicle registered in the township of Olden.
View attachment 233589

This a view of the left-side (i.e. driver's side) of the engine. Visible are the horn just above the electric starter, the cooling fan and its drive belt, the very simple thermosyphon cooling system (no water pump), the steering column with the two control rods for the throttle and the manual ignition advance, the distributor-less ignition system (the sparks are made in a wooden box mounted below the dashboard inside the cab) and the entire electrical wiring system of the truck - mounted on the wooden firewall.
View attachment 233590

Here is the right hand side of the engine compartment. Note the word "Canada" cast into the top of the cylinder head - this vehicle was built right here in Windsor, ON about 5 km (3 miles) from my office! The engine is a 177 cu.in. (2.9 litre) cast iron inline flathead four that produces about 20 hp. It uses splash lubrication (so no oil pump and no oil filter), a thermosyphon cooling circuit (so no water pump), a "trembler coil buzz-box" ignition (so no distributor) with a flywheel-mounted magneto.

You can run on the battery or the magneto. The trembler-coil "spark-maker" is interesting: when you turn the key to "Battery" they buzz - making a sound that is somewhat like a rattlesnake. The fuel tank is in the cowl above the occupant's knees (YIKES!!) - so no fuel pump - but there is a petcock just like on our bikes (although it is manual and not vacuum actuated). There is no vacuum system on the car, and with a compression ratio of only about 5:1, it likely wouldn't work very well anyway.

The transmission is a two-speed planetary unit with engagement bands and a band brake (the only brake on the vehicle). All of the tranny and brake bands are lined with cotton strips, although modern Kevlar-lined replacements are available. In fact, it appears that just about all the parts are available as well as a whole whackload of aftermarket stuff like two-speed rear axles and actual wheel brakes etc. etc.
The only modern convenience is an electric starter to complement the hand crank - but otherwise, it is truly, a basic machine!
View attachment 233591

Below is view of the truck's interior. The 3-pedal driving system takes a fair bit of getting used to:

• the left-hand pedal engages low gear (mash it to the floor to "go"),
• the right-hand pedal is the brake (YIKES!) and,
• the middle pedal is for reverse gear (when mashed down).

The big lever on the left side (barely visible) is the handbrake (when pulled back), neutral (when in the central position) and high gear (when the lever is pushed forward). All of this results in a somewhat "busy" driving experience that was dubbed the "Model T Dance" - and yet, oddly, this perfectly logical control setup never caught on....for some reason. Poor Henry - he only built 15 million Model Ts...second only to the VW Beetle.

The throttle is the stalk on the RHS of the steering column and the manual spark advance is on the LHS of the column. There is no heater, no side windows, no rearview mirrors (although Chris has one hung on the rim of the windscreen), no speedometer, no turn signals and no brake lights.
This thing makes an XS650 seem like a high-tech, ultra-modern wizard-mobile.
View attachment 233592

And here we are, all set for a run into town to the hardware store.....at the top speed of about 40 MPH - but since the only brake is in the transmission (no wheel brakes), that is probably fast enough.
I sure hope the driveshaft never fails......
View attachment 233593

....or perhaps a day motoring al fresco to the market or the beach with my lady-friend.
View attachment 233594

The cool thing (for me at least) is that it is a Canadian vehicle that was built 102 years ago, right here in Windsor, Ontario (zoom in on the RHS of the cylinder head casting and you will see "Canada").

It has a left side door which only Canadian-built "T"s had because they were mainly intended for the British Empire markets in which people drive on the wrong side of the road. The rationale is that the brake / clutch / high gear lever beside the driver's position effectively blocks the door - and so it is customary to enter the vehicle on the passenger side and slide across to the driver's position. Thus, in North America, you really only need a door on the right side, but in right-hand drive markets like the UK, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa etc., you need a door on the left side.

Henry was an ambitious fellow and wanted to be able to export his products around the world, so he incorporated Ford of Canada in 1904 - just after he started the Ford Motor Co. in Detroit. Windsor was the closest he could get to Detroit - while gaining duty-free access to the British Empire market. Thus, Ford built the Canadian cars with doors on both sides so that they could easily be exported (duty free) to British Empire markets and many Canadian-built Ts were exported to those markets with all RH drive controls. Ford still has major engine-building operations including a foundry and an aluminium casting plant here in the City and I have many friends who work there.

Anyhow, I don't have the truck yet - my buddy is delivering it in the spring (he has a big trailer). I will report again when I get it down here and, hopefully, figure out how the heck to drive it.

Pete

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atom4488 said:

1959 Chevy El Camino

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jetmechmarty said:

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MaxPete said:

Sorry 46th - I didn't mean YOU - meant the Smart-car guy (post corrected).

Pete

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46th Georgia said:

No apologies necessary, I was just playing along. But while we're talking about Smart Cars, there was a period there when they we're the "cool car" to have. One of the company owners had to have one and it got put in the inventory in a matter of weeks. He drove it on the expressway and about pooped his pants when a semi blew by him. Light weight, short wheelbases and highway speeds aren't a good mix. If you just use surface streets, they're probably O.K.

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MaxPete said:

they did very well in barrier impact crash testing despite being so tiny.

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jetmechmarty said:

I expect not so well when hit by a cement mixer, or an EV.

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MaxPete said:

You know, the funny think about Smart cars is that they did very well in barrier impact crash testing despite being so tiny. Mercedes-Benz, which built them, really did a good job on the structural integrity - and those things are remarkably strong.

So was the Pontiac Fiero - which was also built like a tank.

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MaxPete said:

certain current Chinese models that have been assessed by NHTSA have done very poorly indeed.

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MaxPete said:

Howdy and thanks!

Apparently, the timing is not too critical on these old gals (its only a 5:1 compression ratio). So you retard it to start the engine - and that is essential if using the hand crank or it might break your arm - and then just adjust it for smooth running once the engine is going. If you go into high gear (only a two-speed transmission) you just advance it all the way and leave it there.

Here is a very good video made by a young chap in Australia on how to start and drive a Model T. He has a whole series on maintenance and repairs and while some of the "engineering" details aren't quite correct, they are very instructive.

Almost nothing about the Model T is like many other cars - even cars of those days. Of course, the Model T was the first "mass-market" car. Nearly every other vehicle sold back then was a either a racer or a rich person's toy which was intended to be driven by a chauffeur. I actually found an advert for a 1920 Model T pickup truck like mine - and the US list price was $381...a fair bit less than I paid - and I didn't even get the "weather-proof storm curtains" or the windsheild wiper!

View attachment 233602

The prior owner's Dad had bought this truck in the 1940s as a daily driver and he used it until the mid-50s and then it sat in their barn for several decades until they had it restored in about 2005, I think. There is a little plaque on the dashboard from the restorer - but I cannot read the date.

As for the larger shop, when we first pulled into buddy's yard and saw the truck, the Mrs. stated that I can park it in the garage because it is "adorable" - so that will leave more room for bikes in the barn!

Pete

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Jan_P said:

I once saw an old Ford warming up at a bike night I remember how quiet it was .. Not sure what engine but it was a straight no V engine .
It ran so quiet and smooth that i remember thinking have evolution moved so little
if I recall right it was 3 litre but no sound to speak of either in the engine bay or at the exhaust.
phuh phuh phuh phuh phuh phuh phuh phuh

OK not much power nor revs but it ran fine.

Motorcycles that old you hear and they hardly ever run even .. But that Ford. did

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