mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Thanks, Raymond. That's really good to know
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1976 XS650C Café Racer Build
- Thread starter mrob24
- Start date
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Owya bugger!I love the idea, just really paranoid about a speed bump, or around here in the Northwest, tree roots pushing pavement up into a large bump (yes, I've struck one before with my undercarriage).
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Hello, All. I've completed some more work on my engine rebuild, so I'm documenting it here for anyone interested. This forum continues to be an unbelievably comprehensive resource for all things 650. I've learned so much studying the information provided by those of you who know far more than I do (that'll be most of you then)! The cases are now closed, back together.
First job to do was to replace all of the oil seals. I did them all (I think) including the tacho drive seal and o-ring, and the seal contained within the body of the starter motor. A few of them were a bit of a bugger, but obviously most were very straightforward with the cases split. I ended up having to order a second new seal that goes between the starter motor and the engine as I initially attempted to fit it from the outside - turns out this is not a good approach as the edge of the case is very sharp. It stripped half the material off the new seal when I pressed it in
. The inside edge is chamfered and made for a much easier job. Lesson learned. I gave a number of the seals a very light smear of TB 1184 to aid them in their role.
With everything back in its rightful home, the new cam chain fitted around the crankshaft sprocket, and pre-assembly lubrication applied liberally where appropriate, the next job was to clean the mating surfaces of the crankcases until I couldn't clean any more. Fortunately, the surfaces were in good condition. Following some very light prep, I degreased them all very thoroughly with rubbing alcohol.
I applied TB 1184 to all surfaces of the upper crankcase and on a few spots on the lower half. I watched many tutorials online where guys seemed to be decanting half a tube of the stuff. This seemed inappropriate, not least due to the risk of overspill finding a home in an oil passageway, so I diligently followed the instructions from TB (who knew?) and applied it sparingly; a nice, thin, almost translucent film. Once the cases were back in contact following some light persuasion with a rubber mallet, I fitted the nuts and washers. I followed a fantastic diagram on here that somebody uploaded (forgive me, I can't remember who) that clearly showed the numbered sequence for closing. I torqued everything down in four stages: 5Nm; 10Nm; 16Nm; and finally 22Nm. I breathed a sigh of relief at this point...
Next was on to refitting the starter gears, kickstart assembly, shift shaft, long clutch push rod etc. All (most) went swimmingly with use of this forum, my manual, and the four million photographs I took during disassembly. Whilst fitting the E-clip to the shift shaft, it pinged 'on to the floor', or so I thought. I was on my hands and knees for a good half hour before I decided it had transcended to an alternate universe. I wonder if it's fallen into the bin under the bench? The bin that has a swinging lid on it...surely not... I took everything out of the bin (lots) and it wasn't there. There was a small box of grass feed in the bin. The clip had fallen off the bench, fallen through the swing lid of the bin, and landed inside the box of grass feed. Unbelievable. that's another half hour of my life I'll never get back.
Offending bin
I torqued the clutch nut up using a clutch holding tool from Yambits, which also worked very well for tightening the countershaft sprocket nut. I tightened this down bloody tight, approximately 90Nm following guidance on here, and put a smear of TB 1184 on the back face of the sprocket to aid the sealing process against the metal collar behind the sprocket.
That's all for now. My block is in being rebored to fit new pistons and rings (Agra Engineering in Dundee). I'm looking forward to getting going on the top end.
Cheers,
Mark
First job to do was to replace all of the oil seals. I did them all (I think) including the tacho drive seal and o-ring, and the seal contained within the body of the starter motor. A few of them were a bit of a bugger, but obviously most were very straightforward with the cases split. I ended up having to order a second new seal that goes between the starter motor and the engine as I initially attempted to fit it from the outside - turns out this is not a good approach as the edge of the case is very sharp. It stripped half the material off the new seal when I pressed it in
. The inside edge is chamfered and made for a much easier job. Lesson learned. I gave a number of the seals a very light smear of TB 1184 to aid them in their role.With everything back in its rightful home, the new cam chain fitted around the crankshaft sprocket, and pre-assembly lubrication applied liberally where appropriate, the next job was to clean the mating surfaces of the crankcases until I couldn't clean any more. Fortunately, the surfaces were in good condition. Following some very light prep, I degreased them all very thoroughly with rubbing alcohol.
I applied TB 1184 to all surfaces of the upper crankcase and on a few spots on the lower half. I watched many tutorials online where guys seemed to be decanting half a tube of the stuff. This seemed inappropriate, not least due to the risk of overspill finding a home in an oil passageway, so I diligently followed the instructions from TB (who knew?) and applied it sparingly; a nice, thin, almost translucent film. Once the cases were back in contact following some light persuasion with a rubber mallet, I fitted the nuts and washers. I followed a fantastic diagram on here that somebody uploaded (forgive me, I can't remember who) that clearly showed the numbered sequence for closing. I torqued everything down in four stages: 5Nm; 10Nm; 16Nm; and finally 22Nm. I breathed a sigh of relief at this point...
Next was on to refitting the starter gears, kickstart assembly, shift shaft, long clutch push rod etc. All (most) went swimmingly with use of this forum, my manual, and the four million photographs I took during disassembly. Whilst fitting the E-clip to the shift shaft, it pinged 'on to the floor', or so I thought. I was on my hands and knees for a good half hour before I decided it had transcended to an alternate universe. I wonder if it's fallen into the bin under the bench? The bin that has a swinging lid on it...surely not... I took everything out of the bin (lots) and it wasn't there. There was a small box of grass feed in the bin. The clip had fallen off the bench, fallen through the swing lid of the bin, and landed inside the box of grass feed. Unbelievable. that's another half hour of my life I'll never get back.
Offending bin
I torqued the clutch nut up using a clutch holding tool from Yambits, which also worked very well for tightening the countershaft sprocket nut. I tightened this down bloody tight, approximately 90Nm following guidance on here, and put a smear of TB 1184 on the back face of the sprocket to aid the sealing process against the metal collar behind the sprocket.
That's all for now. My block is in being rebored to fit new pistons and rings (Agra Engineering in Dundee). I'm looking forward to getting going on the top end.
Cheers,
Mark
Attachments
There was/is a Yamaha Racing Tech Bulletin that suggested "slotting" the 8 cylinderhead studs in order to service the motor without removing it from the frame. Then a flat blade screwdriver can remove ech stud and you can access the top end.
Bloody good report and pictures. Very thorough approach, would put many of us to shame but a great example for people to follow. The E-clip episode, very typical, I think of it as the Universe somehow reminding us about humility, which it seems to do at annoying moments. Looking forward to your next report.
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Good to know - thank you.
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Thank you, Raymond. I completely agree with your point regarding humility - I thought everything was going just fine, no hiccups etc... oops!
Raymond, may I ask you what oil you use in your XS? I know, I know... oil questions! The devil's work. I've read everything going and I thought you'd be a good man to ask since you ride in a similar climate to me and, more interestingly, you have the same Smedspeed oil filter modification as me. Any pointers gratefully received. And I promise no more oil questions
Thanks!
Mark
Raymond, may I ask you what oil you use in your XS? I know, I know... oil questions! The devil's work. I've read everything going and I thought you'd be a good man to ask since you ride in a similar climate to me and, more interestingly, you have the same Smedspeed oil filter modification as me. Any pointers gratefully received. And I promise no more oil questions
Thanks!
Mark
Mark, I have been using Putoline, partly 'coz our local village m/c engineer stocks it. He has been giving me good deals but less so now - my eye is wandering towards Smith & Allan - they stock a good selection of grades at significantly lower prices than other named brands. We'll see.
At the mo, Bullet is running Smith & Allan, something like 15W-40 Passenger Car oil which I'm told suits the old fashioned engine. The W800 is running Putoline Semi- Sport4 and the XS is running Putoline Formula V-Twin oil. To start with, used that in the Yam 'coz had some in the garage but have since been told it's a better formulation for our roller-bearing engines so I keep on feeding the same stuff. Seems to do very well, gets dark with by-products but still feels slippy at changes. About 1500 miles, filter and oil.
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Wrote above last night in the hoose after a couple nips of Jura, ahem. This morning, thought it a good idea to see what is really in the bikes :
Enlarge to see grades. Share your hope this doesn't become an oil thread.
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Thank you very much, Raymond. I had a couple of nips last night, too. Partly to celebrate getting the cases back together, and partly to celebrate getting the wee one down to bed
. I was on the Bunnhabhain 12. I appreciate you taking the time to get back to me, and forposting this helpful photo. I share your sentiment regarding this not becoming an oil thread... Oil is definitely something that every man and dog has an opinion about, so that's it - oil talk DONE. Back to me attempting to rebuild a bike and losing parts in the bin!Thanks again, Sir.
Mark
At least two of these bottles are marked JASO MA2. That's always fine. "ENERGY CONSERVING" or the like can result in a slipping clutch. I hope this response is appropriate.
Yes, but with due respect to Mark, we'll try and avoid any further oil discussion?
Since we're on the subject, Canola or olive oil?
The former is inedible and the latter is suitable for dipping, vinaigrettes, preserving pickled foods and such. Sunflower oil for everything else!
Bbbbbbut I still don't know which has the higher smoke point. Canola, sunflower or olive oil!
Crashedkiwi
XS650 Enthusiast
Welcome to the group from NZ. They’re a great bunch and have been an invaluable (& patient!) resource as I rebuild my XS project. All the best!
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Hi, All. I'd be grateful for your thoughts on the following:
I handed my block to the local engineering outfit, a reputable bunch, approximately six weeks ago. I had a detailed chat with the owner and we agreed the following: the block would be inspected and measured up; they'd advise me what oversize required; I'd purchase oversize piston kit and drop it off with them; they'd then rebore and hone block to new pistons.
What has actually happened: no contact since dropping block off. Two emails and one voice message left asking them for an update to which there was no response. I got a call from them last week saying block ready for collection. Bored to 75.5mm.
Now, clearly this is not what the agreed plan was. My question is this: should I be comfortable taking the block away and fitting 2nd oversize pistons and rings? Or should I be saying, no, I'm not taking it back until I've provided the new pistons and rings and all manufacturer clearance specifications have been confirmed?
To me, it seems they've gone about this the wrong way and I'm concerned regarding sealing issues / seizure if there are problems. But then what do I know? Thoughts appreciated.
Cheers
I handed my block to the local engineering outfit, a reputable bunch, approximately six weeks ago. I had a detailed chat with the owner and we agreed the following: the block would be inspected and measured up; they'd advise me what oversize required; I'd purchase oversize piston kit and drop it off with them; they'd then rebore and hone block to new pistons.
What has actually happened: no contact since dropping block off. Two emails and one voice message left asking them for an update to which there was no response. I got a call from them last week saying block ready for collection. Bored to 75.5mm.
Now, clearly this is not what the agreed plan was. My question is this: should I be comfortable taking the block away and fitting 2nd oversize pistons and rings? Or should I be saying, no, I'm not taking it back until I've provided the new pistons and rings and all manufacturer clearance specifications have been confirmed?
To me, it seems they've gone about this the wrong way and I'm concerned regarding sealing issues / seizure if there are problems. But then what do I know? Thoughts appreciated.
Cheers
The pistons/rings NEED to be fitted. The machinist should ALWAYS have the pistons and rings in hand for final honing/fitment.
mrob24
XS650 Enthusiast
Thank you. This is what I thought. I raised my concerns on the phone and was met by a dismissive attitude. I was told they didn't need the pistons / rings and that 'it would be fine'. I was spoken over each time I tried to speak.
I'll go in tomorrow lunchtime and advise I'm not taking the block away until the job is done properly.
Cheers.
