1977 "garage find"

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TomMead

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I bought a 1977 xs650 the other day. 2400 miles. Rust (of course) in the gas-tank, so I'm deep in YouTube video-land about how to de-rust. Talked to an seasoned older rural motorcycle fixer, who said all this, and I'd love your feedback. "It's quite nice-looking; do NOT paint it. Spend no money on it unless it will START. (I think he could tell that I'm no mechanical genius.) Don't even bother with the gas-tank. Take it off and hook things up to a bottle of gas. (I'm envisioning an IV-pole from the hospital). Don't buy a battery - just hook it up to your car, with the car turned off. See if there's spark. But before all this, put a table-spoon of oil down each spark-plug hole and move the engine (using the kick-start) -- and don't try to start it quite yet. Repeat that. Let the internal parts get lubrication. If you do get it started, turn it off. Let it rest and stew. Start it again later. Don't rev it; Don't let it get hot; Don't drive it down the road. Super gentle. If all this happens, you'll then be motivated to do whatever else you want to make it safe & pretty & happy.
 
TomMead said:
I bought a 1977 xs650 the other day. 2400 miles. Rust (of course) in the gas-tank, so I'm deep in YouTube video-land about how to de-rust. Talked to an seasoned older rural motorcycle fixer, who said all this, and I'd love your feedback. "It's quite nice-looking; do NOT paint it. Spend no money on it unless it will START. (I think he could tell that I'm no mechanical genius.) Don't even bother with the gas-tank. Take it off and hook things up to a bottle of gas. (I'm envisioning an IV-pole from the hospital). Don't buy a battery - just hook it up to your car, with the car turned off. See if there's spark. But before all this, put a table-spoon of oil down each spark-plug hole and move the engine (using the kick-start) -- and don't try to start it quite yet. Repeat that. Let the internal parts get lubrication. If you do get it started, turn it off. Let it rest and stew. Start it again later. Don't rev it; Don't let it get hot; Don't drive it down the road. Super gentle. If all this happens, you'll then be motivated to do whatever else you want to make it safe & pretty & happy.
Click to expand...
Some good advice, some bad. I wouldn't hook it to a car battery, you run the risk of damaging your charging system and that can get expensive real quick. Otherwise not bad advice. I use Marvel Mystery Oil for direct cylinder lubing.
 
RustiePyles said:
Some good advice, some bad. I wouldn't hook it to a car battery, you run the risk of damaging your charging system and that can get expensive real quick. Otherwise not bad advice. I use Marvel Mystery Oil for direct cylinder lubing.
Click to expand...

My understanding is the car battery is ok. Just don't start and run the car while the battery is hooked up to the bike
 
Welcome to the forum Tom.
You'll find information here for just about anything that you need. Some of the most knowledgeable xs650 people on the planet make their way through these pages. Sounds like the old guy had some good advise for you.
Would love to see pics of your bike. We love pics here btw... Bonus of sharing the pics is the ability of members to spot all kinds of things that may save you money or trouble. It is uncanny how much they can gleam from a few photos.
There is also a tremendous technical section available that is filled with information that can be quite useful. Starting with a wake up for engines. Other parts of the bike will no doubt need addressed as well. You are in the right place.
Looking forward to seeing your bike come to life.
 
Amazing if true --> 1977 xs650 the other day. 2400 miles.
I know some don't like bikes that has not been running repeatedly

Put it like this the first time i heard that ---Spend no money on it
Was sometime mid 90 ies

Take your time and read in a manual and ask advice ..
 
Yup - gotta see pics. Here are my tips:
- get a set of JIS screwdrivers (Vessel brand or GoFastInnovations.com) - not expensive but essential for NOT messing up every single screw on the bike that looks like a Philips - but isn't.
- get a shop manual - essential for nearly everything on these bikes;
- start a thread, post pictures and ask questions on this forum;
- PLEASE do NOT get a sawzall anywhere near that bike.

The number of nice old bikes that have been wrecked by somebody who wanted to "chop it"/"hardtail it" etc. etc. and in the process created an unsafe, uncomfortable, unrideable mess - would fill a barn. They come on the forum, tell us all how great a mechanic they are, ask a few questions that show they don't know squat, ruin their bike, and then sell it as "a project".

You've got yourself a ballgame there Tom and with a little work, you will have an extremely nice bike to ride that will turn heads and give you lots of smiles per mile.

Cheers,

Pete

PS: Oh, and welcome from Canada's sunny southern coast near Harrow, Ontario!
 
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TomMead said:
I bought a 1977 xs650 the other day. 2400 miles. Rust (of course) in the gas-tank, so I'm deep in YouTube video-land about how to de-rust. Talked to an seasoned older rural motorcycle fixer, who said all this, and I'd love your feedback. "It's quite nice-looking; do NOT paint it. Spend no money on it unless it will START. (I think he could tell that I'm no mechanical genius.) Don't even bother with the gas-tank. Take it off and hook things up to a bottle of gas. (I'm envisioning an IV-pole from the hospital). Don't buy a battery - just hook it up to your car, with the car turned off. See if there's spark. But before all this, put a table-spoon of oil down each spark-plug hole and move the engine (using the kick-start) -- and don't try to start it quite yet. Repeat that. Let the internal parts get lubrication. If you do get it started, turn it off. Let it rest and stew. Start it again later. Don't rev it; Don't let it get hot; Don't drive it down the road. Super gentle. If all this happens, you'll then be motivated to do whatever else you want to make it safe & pretty & happy.
Click to expand...

I'll add another lube idea.............

Take off the 2 front tappet covers, The alloy things at the top of the head. There are 4 of them 2 in the front and 2 at the back. 3 of them have 3 studs fixing, (3 sided), them and the 4th has 4 studs fixing it. (4 sided).

Take off the 2 front ones and using a spray bottle with some very thin oil or mix a bit of WD40 and oil together to make it thin and spray liberally in the head area. This will lube the tappets, rockers and Cam. This area will be very dry. May even be worth wile to take off the back to covers and spray in there as well to get a good coverage. but with a good spray from the front it should be enough. Cant have to much and any oil will drain into the sump and not the cylinders.

Caution. The tappet cover fixing nuts may be stuck,a good soak with penetrating oil on them, if you have to, do it over a 2 or 3 day period it is worth the wait. These nuts are on studs in the head and sometimes when the nuts are rusted to the studs the stud will come out with the nut. Yhats ok, remove the nut later or untill you get things a bit sorted the stud with the nut can be reinstalled to get the bike running initially.
 
650Skull said:
My understanding is the car battery is ok. Just don't start and run the car while the battery is hooked up to the bike
Click to expand...

Yeah, a car battery is twelve volts. The fact that it is bigger and holds a larger charge is immaterial. The standard advice is not to run the car engine. But this is likely because we don't know what the range of voltage that an unknown car's charging system will deliver. So, better to err on the side of caution.

Dave
 
Adding a +1 for getting a set of JIS screwdrivers!
Japanese bikes have plenty of fasteners that look like Phillips screws. They are not.
They are Japanese Industrial Standard. A Phillips screwdriver will strip them easily and make you think they must be cheap, soft screws.
 
Regarding using a car battery to start a bike. My understanding is that it's OK to do a jump start from a non-running car, but you remove the cables immediately once the bike starts. I've done it that way several times. You remove the cables once it starts because the car battery has a much larger capacity than a bike battery. If the car battery is discharged you will overwork the alternator trying to charge it. That's not good. It can let the smoke out of the alternator.
 
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Hi TomMead, what a lot of good advice you have been given above. All I would add is, put up some pictures - oh, that's already been said, but it's worth repeating. And tell us a bit about yourself, your experience with bikes, mechanical experience etc so these knowledgeable people can pitch it right. And make sure you enjoy the experience of bringing this old survivor back to life. Cheers, Raymond
 
RustiePyles said:
Some good advice, some bad. I wouldn't hook it to a car battery, you run the risk of damaging your charging system and that can get expensive real quick. Otherwise not bad advice. I use Marvel Mystery Oil for direct cylinder lubing.
Click to expand...

Hi Rustie,
wrongo, buddy. As long as it's a 12Volt battery it's capacity don't matter except that bigger is better for E-starting.
My XS650 sidecar rig's 12Volt car battery has enough cold cranking Amps to start the engine in a half-turn from pressing the starter button.
Us cheap beggars don't use MMO. A mix of engine oil & kerosene does the job far cheaper.
 
fredintoon said:
Hi Rustie,
wrongo, buddy. As long as it's a 12Volt battery it's capacity don't matter except that bigger is better for E-starting.
My XS650 sidecar rig's 12Volt car battery has enough cold cranking Amps to start the engine in a half-turn from pressing the starter button.
Us cheap beggars don't use MMO. A mix of engine oil & kerosene does the job far cheaper.
Click to expand...
Well, no I'm not wrong. Just because you've always done something doesn't mean its right. Wire size, component heat dissipation, component load are all based on amperage calculations. Not Voltage. Car/truck systems are built to handle WAY more amp load than a motorcycle. You wouldn't use 14-2 for a 30amp circuit in your house would you? I don't know maybe you would, I wouldn't. I also wouldn't use 750CCA battery normally used with 00 cables on a motorcycle of unknown condition that was only designed to run a max of roughly 210CCA @1.4A constant load with 8g cables. I only use cable size as an example, but NOTHING in these 37-52 year old motorcycles was designed to handle the amps of a modern car or truck. And yes I realize the guys start their bikes with car batteries occasionally and usually nothing goes wrong, but I would not encourage anyone of unknown skill level to do it bikes of unknown condition as it could cause problems that otherwise could have been avoided. For those of you who seem to be under the impression that amperage is irrelevant, I challenge you to swap the + battery cable in your car/truck with one the same size as the one on your XS (8awg) and see how long it lasts. Or better yet, if amperage doesn't matter go put a 14awg cord on your dryer.

Also, kero is not cheaper option for everyone. Its near impossible to even get NO1 kero in large swaths of the US and where you can get it, it's $13 dollars a gallon at the big box store.
 

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