2003 Royal Enfield 500 Deluxe

Grimly

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Mikuni have a right-angled and a 45deg angled cable entry for those. Been meaning to get a couple.
Assuming that's a Mik and even if it isn't, that it shares the same thread size.
 

Raymond

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Grimly, had a look on the Hitchcocks site and they don't seem to list it. I'm not too sure whether it would be compatible with the cable I have - if the angled tube extends the effective length of the outer, might not be able to get it adjusted. I have the rubber cap on its way and that should help keep the cable in place.

But this morning, to cut a long story short, tank off again, more than once, re-routed the throttle cable again, more than once, tank back on trying to ensure cable is not trapped, adjust cable to make sure it closes the slide fully down plus a wee bit of free play. While I had the carb off washed it out again and made a note that main jet is 117.5.

The result of all this fiddling, an hour ago, bike started and the revs did not race. I have the throttle stop a bit too far out, mental note to play with and optimise the tick-over. But went for a short test ride to the next village and back. Might be imagining it but the wee Bullet seems to be running better than ever.

So elated, can finally get around to answering the question I posed on 16th November last, https://www.xs650.com/threads/2003-royal-enfield-500-deluxe.60842/post-717746

Have I made a terrible mistake?

The answer is an emphatic No! Obviously, the Honda NX250 was a more useful bike - faster, more economical, more reliable, lighter, built-in rack to carry things. But the Enfield has an endearing quality that makes up for lack of speed. Reliability is going to depend on getting to know the bike and how to tinker with it. Easy to work on, good accessibility, parts readily available and not too expensive.

Involvement, character, classic riding experience. Glad I bought it. Not ready to sell either of the other bikes yet though.
 

Raymond

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Know I'm gonna come to regret saying I bought this bike for tinkering . . .

During all the messing about with timing and new throttle cable, been careless and lost the tick-over.

Said I would optimise the tick-over? But the bike just dies. Have tried winding the throttle stop in, but can't keep the engine running unless I grab the throttle and give it more than should be needed just to hold a tick-over.

I guess this is the problem I had in Galashiels when the bike kept stalling? Blockage in the pilot system? That's what I'm going to look at next.
 

Raymond

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Therapeutic way to spend a Saturday morning.


PICT0408.JPG
 

Raymond

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While I was at it, decided to have a look at the coil.

Buried in the middle of the bike, feared I might have to start removing battery box, toolboxes etc to get it out. You get to the top of it by removing the seat and the Boyer Power box. Started to remove the LT leads and to my surprise (!) the whole bloody coil was turning. Reach under it, push up and out she comes.

PICT0409.JPG

Held not very tightly by a metal strap against the mudguard:

PICT0410.JPG

As you will probably have noticed, the coil is minging - oily and dirty. Would that be a problem? I'm thinking, leaking charge?

Anyhow, tested with a multimeter, primary resistance 3.5 Ω, secondary 7.6 KΩ. For the Bullet, told to expect 7-8 KΩ so that's pretty healthy.

Also checked a new spare Lucas coil wot I needlessly invested in 'coz it was cheap - pretty much the same numbers.

Slapped all back together. Tried to start. But it won't. Enough. Back in the garage in shame.
 

Adamc

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While I was at it, decided to have a look at the coil.

Buried in the middle of the bike, feared I might have to start removing battery box, toolboxes etc to get it out. You get to the top of it by removing the seat and the Boyer Power box. Started to remove the LT leads and to my surprise (!) the whole bloody coil was turning. Reach under it, push up and out she comes.

View attachment 220409

Held not very tightly by a metal strap against the mudguard:

View attachment 220410

As you will probably have noticed, the coil is minging - oily and dirty. Would that be a problem? I'm thinking, leaking charge?

Anyhow, tested with a multimeter, primary resistance 3.5 Ω, secondary 7.6 KΩ. For the Bullet, told to expect 7-8 KΩ so that's pretty healthy.

Also checked a new spare Lucas coil wot I needlessly invested in 'coz it was cheap - pretty much the same numbers.

Slapped all back together. Tried to start. But it won't. Enough. Back in the garage in shame.
S'funny Raymond, it starts as an itch but the more we scratch, it becomes a rash! I feel your irritation as, like me, you started with a simple symptom and now it needs a full prognosis and remedy!
 

jpdevol

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Perhaps the points' timing never got quite right? Were it me, I'd go back there - with dial-gauge in hand - and fiddle again. If rolling the rear wheel is unsatisfactory, well then the messy primary cover to access crank bolt.

Also a good aid in that exercise is an audible device to "sound" points opening whilst you peer at said gauge.
 

Raymond

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Of course I'll end up checking the timing again. The reason I thought I'd messed up was the revving, but that was no doubt due to the throttle cable problem.

If you look here https://www.xs650.com/threads/2003-royal-enfield-500-deluxe.60842/post-752525

you'll see how I established what should be the correct tdc? Also marked 10° and 32° with an indelible pen - hope that lasts - used the 10° and a test lamp to set the points opening. I connected the lamp between the points spring and frame earth and it gave a pretty good indication as the points began to open.

So at the moment I think it's right. Wondered about maybe not getting a good spark, which is why I looked at the coil, which is probably the original. The numbers seem good but still wondering whether all the oil and muck might be letting charge leak away? And today, took the main jet, needle jet/emulsion tube and pilot jet out, sprayed brake cleaner - it's wot I've got - though the jets and the carb's orifices.

A bit mystified. Bike was running well until I went to Gala last week, but since then everything I've done seems a bit wide of the mark.
 
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jpdevol

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Ah...it's not your points that are off, it's my reading comprehension; missed the paragraph @ 8am this morn'in - sorry
The result of all this fiddling, an hour ago, bike started and the revs did not race. I have the throttle stop a bit too far out, mental note to play with and optimise the tick-over. But went for a short test ride to the next village and back. Might be imagining it but the wee Bullet seems to be running better than ever.
 

Raymond

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Still won't start.

To recap, I have set the spark timing, cleaned the carb, including taking jets out, checked adequate fuel flow, checked the coil by testing resistance in the primary and between primary and secondary - both values in range. I think it was 4.5 and 8000 ohms respectively. Compression is good - haven't measured it but you can stand on the kick-start.

So today, decided to check the timing again. Plastic tarp on garage floor, bike on centre stand, foot peg off, brake pedal loosened off, drain tray under, remove primary cover. Thankfully, the indelible pen marks are still there. Plug out and tdc tool in. Points cover off. Tappet cover off. Turn the engine, socket on the crank nut, until tdc on compression - tappets turn easy.

With a test lamp connected between points spring and earth, the lamp comes on at 10° BTDC. I am sure I got the timing right.

Slapped it all back together and put the Ribena or was it ATF back in the primary.

A few kicks and . . . still nada. No surprise, I haven't changed anything.

So had another play with Elliot's spark gap tester. Plug out, connect the tester between plug lead and earth, turn the engine by hand. With the tester set to the Small Engine gap, no spark. So I closed the gap progressively. Eventually there was a visible spark. At this point, the gap in the tester was about 2.5mm.

I think that is too small. If the spark can only cross 2.5 mm at atmospheric, will it be unable to cross the plug gap at compression in the cylinder?

Although the coil measured as good, maybe it's time to swap another coil in?
 

Mailman

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It feels like you’re closing in on it Raymond. It’s frustrating for sure, but in the end your methodical approach will win the day. I was just thinking that in the not so distant future, there won’t be people like you around that can do this sort of stuff.
 

Adamc

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Hmmmm.

Put the brand new coil in. Repeated the spark gap test - better, visible spark at 4.5 mm, so the spark voltage is maybe about double?

But the flaming bike still won't start . . .
Oh Poop!
Raymond when I’m scratching my head in frustration, you always offer reassuring words of encouragement. You have far better knowledge than me old boy, and you will succeed. Just take a tea break and come back to it with renewed vigour. Once the puzzle is solved reward yourself with a wee dram. 🥃
 

Raymond

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It's Sunday morning and there's no progress to report but.

Firstly, an interesting and helpful suggestion from the Unofficial RE Community forum - give a squirt of carb cleaner. If the bike starts and runs for a few seconds, the problem is carb, blocked jets or what have you. If still won't start, electrical gremlin somewhere.

Don't have any carb cleaner but could use brake cleaner or WD40 or even petrol in a spray bottle.

But before all that, going to try the new ultrasonic cleaner. Give the carb a warm spa bath in carb cleaning fluid with ultrasonic waves to loosen the grime.

Might be fun even if it doesn't give a breakthrough.
 

Raymond

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Rooted around in the back of the products cupboard and found I do have carb cleaner. Air filter off, quick squirt, bike starts first kick, runs nicely for a few seconds.

PICT0419.JPG

Tried it a second time, same result. So that's a pretty good indication that blocked carb jets are, uhm, stopping it starting.

Ultrasonic cleaner time. Filled the bath with hot water and 10% this stuff

PICT0424.JPG

and set to 55°C and fifteen minutes of ultrasound.


Before putting the bits in the cleaner, squirted some of that carb cleaner spray down the various orifices. After 2 fifteen minute baths:


PICT0420.JPGPICT0422.JPGPICT0425.JPG
PICT0428.JPGPICT0427.JPGPICT0429.JPG


The photos showing the carb aprés cleaning really don't do it justice. Maybe it's the dull day, but the thing came up lustrously clean. A little bit of polishing with a cloth would probably make it gleam. Not too sure how clean the internal passages are. But the brass jets came out looking very clean.

Rinsed under the cold tap for a while. Would love to blast some compressed air through but just have to wait till it dries out.

Then we shall see.
 

46th Georgia

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You
It's Sunday morning and there's no progress to report but.

Firstly, an interesting and helpful suggestion from the Unofficial RE Community forum - give a squirt of carb cleaner. If the bike starts and runs for a few seconds, the problem is carb, blocked jets or what have you. If still won't start, electrical gremlin somewhere.

Don't have any carb cleaner but could use brake cleaner or WD40 or even petrol in a spray bottle.

But before all that, going to try the new ultrasonic cleaner. Give the carb a warm spa bath in carb cleaning fluid with ultrasonic waves to loosen the grime.

Might be fun even if it doesn't give a breakthrough.
You might want to give the carb a pint so it can relax whilst soaking in the spa.
 

Raymond

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If there's one thing more useless than a motorbike that don't go, it must be owner of said motorbike. But enough with the self chastisement already.

After drying off the carb and waiting till I thought it had dried out, re-assembled, back in the bike - access for this kind of thing is so easy on this old timer - tried a start. Nuffin'. In fact, kicked and kicked till I was fed up.

Coz I didn't blow compressed air, I think there might be some water, or worse some evil amalgam of water, carb cleaning fluid and petrol in the carb's internal passageways.

Sitting in a 100°C oven right now . . .
 

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If there's one thing more useless than a motorbike that don't go, it must be owner of said motorbike. But enough with the self chastisement already.

After drying off the carb and waiting till I thought it had dried out, re-assembled, back in the bike - access for this kind of thing is so easy on this old timer - tried a start. Nuffin'. In fact, kicked and kicked till I was fed up.

Coz I didn't blow compressed air, I think there might be some water, or worse some evil amalgam of water, carb cleaning fluid and petrol in the carb's internal passageways.

Sitting in a 100°C oven right now . . .
You forgot the pint, didn't you?
 
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