I ferget, Raymond... why are we lookin' at the tranny?
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2003 Royal Enfield 500 Deluxe
- Thread starter Raymond
- Start date
Nope. The Albion gearbox is an ancient design, originally made for lathes, so it's workshop equipment. But I'm sure it's quite happy sitting behind an engine and getting out and about. It's no Suzuki - there is a definite knack to getting a good gearchange. Part of the fun riding the anachronism, definitely a mild feeling of satisfaction every time you do a good change. And I don't get too many bad ones these days - thankfully, coz it's not much fun when you miss a gear and don't know where you are in the gearbox as you wobble along trying to find a gear, any gear.
Take your time, load the lever with your right foot till you feel slight resistance, pull the clutch, lift further and feel it engage, release the clutch. Slow and positive.
But the ratios are sub-optimal - there's an over-large gap between third and fourth. I bought a close-ratio kit, just two cogs, but with them fitted 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears are higher, 4th remains the same and the overall effect is to remove the large gap. The upgrade gets a good shout from Bullet owners.
Progress, but not much of it.
Without anything so useful as a Haynes manual, giving a strip-down sequence, I continually worry that I'll miss out an important step and regret it later. Looking at the ends of the gearbox shafts it occurred to me that I should have removed the primary drive, so today did that.
Found my clutch tool - that's a boon and makes removing the centre nut easy.
Withe centre nut removed the clutch would not pull off, so looked at my notes and adopted the same work-round as last time. Use the clutch centre, a piece of threaded rod (doesn't need to be threaded, it's just a distance piece), a bolt inserted in open end of gearshaft for protection, and three long screws - winding the screws in pulls the clutch basket out.
Which lets the primary lift free.
Now we can remove the inner chain-case and the gearbox sprocket
Except, we can't - sprocket nut is too tight and ain't going nowhere. Threatened it with a shifting spanner but only succeeded in damaging the nut. Oops. Been on to Hitchcocks and ordered one big box spanner, sprocket nut, removal of.
Oh, ordered a new sprocket nut while I was there - tidy up the old one and put it back a bit mean to save £4.
Until the tool arrives, not much more I can do.
Without anything so useful as a Haynes manual, giving a strip-down sequence, I continually worry that I'll miss out an important step and regret it later. Looking at the ends of the gearbox shafts it occurred to me that I should have removed the primary drive, so today did that.
Found my clutch tool - that's a boon and makes removing the centre nut easy.
Withe centre nut removed the clutch would not pull off, so looked at my notes and adopted the same work-round as last time. Use the clutch centre, a piece of threaded rod (doesn't need to be threaded, it's just a distance piece), a bolt inserted in open end of gearshaft for protection, and three long screws - winding the screws in pulls the clutch basket out.
Which lets the primary lift free.
Now we can remove the inner chain-case and the gearbox sprocket
Except, we can't - sprocket nut is too tight and ain't going nowhere. Threatened it with a shifting spanner but only succeeded in damaging the nut. Oops. Been on to Hitchcocks and ordered one big box spanner, sprocket nut, removal of.
Oh, ordered a new sprocket nut while I was there - tidy up the old one and put it back a bit mean to save £4.
Until the tool arrives, not much more I can do.
Big box spanner, ordered Monday, arrived Tuesday, and its a Beast!
Made short work of removing the sprocket nut.
Unfortunately the new nut is not the right one. Never mind . . .
Made short work of removing the sprocket nut.
Unfortunately the new nut is not the right one. Never mind . . .
Gearbox dismantled.
First and last photos show out and inside of inner gearbox cover. On the clusters, the pair of gears lower right need to be replaced to achieve the close ratio box.
Lot of cleaning, then need to remove the old pair of gears (!) fit the new ones and slap it all back together again.
Removing the gears might need heat and force. Worst case, take to an engineer wiv a press. Fitting the new ones, my thoughts are gear shafts in the freezer, heat the new gear, bit of oil and it should push or tap into place.
Putting everything back together? This bit concerns me. Memories of rebuilding gearboxes where you would ideally need at least three hands to hold everything together - shafts, gear clusters, selection forks - and slide into place without being able to see or get even one hand in there. Can get a wee bit sweary and you never think it'll all go back in correctly. Oh, and at the same time hook it all up to the selector mechanism.
Problem for another day . . .
First and last photos show out and inside of inner gearbox cover. On the clusters, the pair of gears lower right need to be replaced to achieve the close ratio box.
Lot of cleaning, then need to remove the old pair of gears (!) fit the new ones and slap it all back together again.
Removing the gears might need heat and force. Worst case, take to an engineer wiv a press. Fitting the new ones, my thoughts are gear shafts in the freezer, heat the new gear, bit of oil and it should push or tap into place.
Putting everything back together? This bit concerns me. Memories of rebuilding gearboxes where you would ideally need at least three hands to hold everything together - shafts, gear clusters, selection forks - and slide into place without being able to see or get even one hand in there. Can get a wee bit sweary and you never think it'll all go back in correctly. Oh, and at the same time hook it all up to the selector mechanism.
Problem for another day . . .
It’s a motorcycle with about 70 years of experience. I have complete confidence in your ability to handle it.
Hmm - it's the bike that has experience, I doubt my own when it comes to shoving the guts back inna gearbox.
I've faith in you too, Raymond. Get it all cleaned up, set everything out in a logical order, then run through every step in your mind until you know how you're going to proceed.
Feel the Zen.
But before that, need to swap those two gears and the first step is take them offa the shafts. One of those occasions when you gotta apply force, but how to hold everything? The was the setup I used:
Support 'old' gear on jaws of vice, sacrificial screw* placed in end of shaft, belt it with an engineer's hammer.
The layshaft one was not too bad - needed a few, uhm, hearty cluncks with a heavy hammer and the gear agreed to part company with it's lifelong colleagues. But the main shaft? Was not for doin' likewise. Hit it hard - nope. Use a bigger hammer - still nope. Heat with a heat gun till bloody hot - hot enough to blister an unwary finger, don't ask - but still nope.
Thought about taking to the engineers in Galashiels? But before admitting defeat, had one last go and gave it a good belt or three and at last there was a tiny gap opened up. Enough encouragement to keep at it. Can't remember using so much sustained violence In the context of m/c tinkering,
'Old' gears on the right, replacements to the left. Sacrificial screw with considerably flattened head, but no damage to the gear shaft. In fact, even the old gears sitting in the jaws were unmarked - must be quality steel. Cleaned the gear clusters off and can't see any trace of wear on any of the gear teeth, like new to me. There's slight rounding on the corners of some of the engagement dogs, but nothing to cause fright.
Both shafts in plastic bags, spend tonight in the freezer. Tomorrow, heat the new gears and it should be easy to tap them home. Enough for today.
We measure the way forward with small victories like this.
*which is not something like a sympathy fuck
Support 'old' gear on jaws of vice, sacrificial screw* placed in end of shaft, belt it with an engineer's hammer.
The layshaft one was not too bad - needed a few, uhm, hearty cluncks with a heavy hammer and the gear agreed to part company with it's lifelong colleagues. But the main shaft? Was not for doin' likewise. Hit it hard - nope. Use a bigger hammer - still nope. Heat with a heat gun till bloody hot - hot enough to blister an unwary finger, don't ask - but still nope.
Thought about taking to the engineers in Galashiels? But before admitting defeat, had one last go and gave it a good belt or three and at last there was a tiny gap opened up. Enough encouragement to keep at it. Can't remember using so much sustained violence In the context of m/c tinkering,
'Old' gears on the right, replacements to the left. Sacrificial screw with considerably flattened head, but no damage to the gear shaft. In fact, even the old gears sitting in the jaws were unmarked - must be quality steel. Cleaned the gear clusters off and can't see any trace of wear on any of the gear teeth, like new to me. There's slight rounding on the corners of some of the engagement dogs, but nothing to cause fright.
Both shafts in plastic bags, spend tonight in the freezer. Tomorrow, heat the new gears and it should be easy to tap them home. Enough for today.
We measure the way forward with small victories like this.
*which is not something like a sympathy fuck
I like to play with old motorbikes but I don't get to do it all day, every day. So today, other stuff out the way, made it first priority to fit those gears. Heated new layshaft gear, fetched the ccccold lay shaft, lightly greased the spines for luck, re-heated the gear, placed on shaft and tapped home with engineer's hammer and a socket. Easy peasy. Repeated for main shaft - did em one at a time so's not to worry bout em getting cold/warm. It were a lot more stubborn but after persistence with the hammer and bouyed by seeing yesterday how tough the critters are got the gear driven home.
Cleaned off the inner gearbox cover - horrible mix of grease and oil. Gently scraped most of the bits of gasket stuck on the inner face, then cleaned up the mating surface with wet/dry paper sellotaped to a sheet of glass, moving it round in figure eights.
Bit unfortunate that when I wiped the gearbox out, that horrible black sludge, there wuz a couple of mystery prizes. This is a tray of bits that attach to the inner cover, screws and the bearing cover, but the two washers on the right appeared in the sludge. One copper washer, might have fallen out from the inner cover as lifted away? The other is an oddity - small, dished in shape, with a weird serrated edge. Might have been on the loose for a while? Possibly the serrated edge tells of trips through or near dem gears?
Hoping to i/d correct location for the copper one though. Experience has shown you can't just ignore the odd washer or WHY left over from rebuilding gearboxes.
Cleaned off the inner gearbox cover - horrible mix of grease and oil. Gently scraped most of the bits of gasket stuck on the inner face, then cleaned up the mating surface with wet/dry paper sellotaped to a sheet of glass, moving it round in figure eights.
Bit unfortunate that when I wiped the gearbox out, that horrible black sludge, there wuz a couple of mystery prizes. This is a tray of bits that attach to the inner cover, screws and the bearing cover, but the two washers on the right appeared in the sludge. One copper washer, might have fallen out from the inner cover as lifted away? The other is an oddity - small, dished in shape, with a weird serrated edge. Might have been on the loose for a while? Possibly the serrated edge tells of trips through or near dem gears?
Hoping to i/d correct location for the copper one though. Experience has shown you can't just ignore the odd washer or WHY left over from rebuilding gearboxes.
The gears having been swapped, time to put it all back together again.
Harrumph. With no step-by-step manual. Took quite a lot if tries* to get both shafts lined up and pushed home - harder than it looks because the engagement teeth (?) on the selector fork won't pass into the box due to cast lugs so you haff to put both shafts near enough together and hold the selector fork near enough in place till you're past the narrow bit then get them back together again. Then find the blind hole for the layshaft - can't see it of course - then push everything home while hoping the selector mechanism grabs the selector forks.
Next step is put the gearbox inner cover back but I've got questions. First, I loosened the screw that holds the kick-start stop.
Didn't need to loosen it, but without a manual that's what I did. . . anyhoo, I've no idea what orientation the stop should be. So I've set it as shown but it's quite likely wrong.
The other thing is, I removed the kick-start shaft and again, no idea what orientation it should go back in.
The black widget in the blue circle is a little spring-loaded stop which must engage when you kick and otherwise release.
Pleased to have made some progress but don't want to go further till I check the kick-start shaft and stop-plate. Might find a you-tube vid or might see if anybody on the Unofficial Royal Enfield Rider Community knows. Or final option is slap it together and see if it works.
* Oh yes indeed, quite a lot of tries to get it to fit
Harrumph. With no step-by-step manual. Took quite a lot if tries* to get both shafts lined up and pushed home - harder than it looks because the engagement teeth (?) on the selector fork won't pass into the box due to cast lugs so you haff to put both shafts near enough together and hold the selector fork near enough in place till you're past the narrow bit then get them back together again. Then find the blind hole for the layshaft - can't see it of course - then push everything home while hoping the selector mechanism grabs the selector forks.
Next step is put the gearbox inner cover back but I've got questions. First, I loosened the screw that holds the kick-start stop.
Didn't need to loosen it, but without a manual that's what I did. . . anyhoo, I've no idea what orientation the stop should be. So I've set it as shown but it's quite likely wrong.
The other thing is, I removed the kick-start shaft and again, no idea what orientation it should go back in.
The black widget in the blue circle is a little spring-loaded stop which must engage when you kick and otherwise release.
Pleased to have made some progress but don't want to go further till I check the kick-start shaft and stop-plate. Might find a you-tube vid or might see if anybody on the Unofficial Royal Enfield Rider Community knows. Or final option is slap it together and see if it works.
* Oh yes indeed, quite a lot of tries to get it to fit
Gadjo fandjo
XS650 Member
Mistake??? two very different bikes.
Oh yes, chalk and cheese.
Congratulations on your progress so far Raymond! I’ve never had the courage to take a transmission apart, I can’t seem to wrap my head around how they work. I’m curious, do you just not own a manual or are there none made for your bike?
Anyways I’m sure you will figure out your kickstart alignment, you’ve been doing great so far!
Bob, I actually have several manuals. There's an Indian RE Bullet manual, must be based on the Redditch one from aeons ago - things like tech details and a general description, but no step-by-step with photos like Haynes or Clymer. What is missing is the strip-down sequence. There's a few photos but old and grainy. Bought two or three hoping each would be something better, but I reckon they are all just photocopies of some ancient original. Anybody who wants a copy is very welcome.
The other thing I have is the Peter Snidal book - Snidal felt there ought to be a manual, so he wrote one. Many people swear by it, I swear at it. It's more a 'book about the Royal Enfield Bullet' than a manual. Written in a discursive style, you can't use it to look things up. I might get round to reading it some sunny day, said to be full of nuggets of wisdom, but as a reference source, not really.
The other thing I have is the Peter Snidal book - Snidal felt there ought to be a manual, so he wrote one. Many people swear by it, I swear at it. It's more a 'book about the Royal Enfield Bullet' than a manual. Written in a discursive style, you can't use it to look things up. I might get round to reading it some sunny day, said to be full of nuggets of wisdom, but as a reference source, not really.
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Times like this make me feel how lucky we are to have XS650.com and all the helpful members within the forum. No other forum offers so much.
Congratulations on your progress so far Raymond! I’ve never had the courage to take a transmission apart, I can’t seem to wrap my head around how they work. I’m curious, do you just not own a manual or are there none made for your bike?
Anyways I’m sure you will figure out your kickstart alignment, you’ve been doing great so far!
Much Respect Raymond! Your tenacity with this machine is admirable.
Giving up an R18 for and Enfield Bullet?
Well, some kind person on the Unofficial Royal Enfield Community forum was able to put up a photo which showed how the stop plate and the kick-start shaft are supposed to rub along together. Which I was able to replicate on my Bullet's inner cover
Once the k/s is fully home, the stop plate disengages the pawl so the k/s no longer in contact with the gear pinion. The short bolt that holds the stop plate was well mullered which prevented the stop plate tightening down fully. Looked through the odds'n'sods carton and found an Allen screw with the correct thread
and I guess you can see my plan?
Once I was reasonably happy with the fittings inside the cover, put a coat of Wellseal and screwed the cover back on - mainly a matter of lining up the two gear shafts and the bolt for the detent screw as you offer up the cover, but as the cover is nearly on you have to peer down into the gap and ensure the gear change paddle (for want of a better word, the black thing hanging down in first photo) catches the end of the selector mech.
Then screw it all up. Uhm, no, not quite what I meant . . .
Anyhoo, very pleased to have got to this point. Next will be refitting all the bits that go twixt inner and outer covers. Oh, and add some gearbox oil.
Progress continues. With the primary drive outa the way, good time to assess the final drive.
First oddity is that the chain has 95 pins. Yup. 47 links plus one of them half-links. The sprockets are standard sizes at 17 teeth front and 38 rear so no clear reason why the half-link. Perhaps that is standard?
Washed the chain and gave it a closer look - not happy, and the sprockets are slightly hooked, so ordered a new set. The rear sprocket is one of those typical British brake drum/sprocket affairs with its own bearing, which I knocked out.
To take a closer look at the bearing
What look like gaps between the balls are in fact gaps between the balls. There's only ten and clearly room for a few more. Glad I investigated and makes me wonder about the quality of parts originally fitted. That comment applies to the tired chain and sprockets too.
Think I'll go have a look at the rear wheel bearings now.
First oddity is that the chain has 95 pins. Yup. 47 links plus one of them half-links. The sprockets are standard sizes at 17 teeth front and 38 rear so no clear reason why the half-link. Perhaps that is standard?
Washed the chain and gave it a closer look - not happy, and the sprockets are slightly hooked, so ordered a new set. The rear sprocket is one of those typical British brake drum/sprocket affairs with its own bearing, which I knocked out.
To take a closer look at the bearing
What look like gaps between the balls are in fact gaps between the balls. There's only ten and clearly room for a few more. Glad I investigated and makes me wonder about the quality of parts originally fitted. That comment applies to the tired chain and sprockets too.
Think I'll go have a look at the rear wheel bearings now.