2003 Royal Enfield 500 Deluxe

jetmechmarty

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Re. Triumph 4 speed, oil-in-tank 650 vs. Yamaha 650, there were tradeoffs both ways. The 74-forward Yamahas are heavier than a 4-speed Bonneville by 50 to 100 lbs., depending on year, and a lot of that heft sits up high, resulting in top-heavy steering. The Triumph's pushrod motor has less topside weight. Better balance, better dampers, and better frame design give the Triumph much better handling--quicker, more linear steering and less deflection in bumpy corners. As to power, the Bonneville delivered approximately the same peak power as the XS650, but at lower rpm. I cruised my '68 Bonnie at 80 mph frequently and could turn up the wick to 115 at will. The bottom line was that you could buy British and get a rider's machine at the price of much maintenance, or buy Japanese and get a reliable machine and either tolerate its rotten handling or spend significant bucks correcting its bad manners. If you wanted something that could dance with the Brits, the final price of the Yamaha was higher. Back in the day the connoisseur's ride of choice was the 500 cc. Triumph Daytona--superb handling, think the line and the bike was on it. Sadly, that fine handling was a bit too confidence inspiring. Bob Dylan's near-fatal crash was aboard a Daytona, and John Gardner, novelist, critic, and scholar, died on one.
I suspect I may be a bit taller than average. As such I seem to recall the Triumph was somewhat larger and that much more comfortable. At least, that’s how I remember it.
 

Raymond

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I suspect I may be a bit taller than average. As such I seem to recall the Triumph was somewhat larger and that much more comfortable. At least, that’s how I remember it.

I'll speculate that yours was a 1971-on Triumph? Mine was a1970 model - built in October 1969, must have been one of the very last of the old-style frame with the separate oil tank. The new Oil-in-Frame model was significantly taller.

My 1970 TR6 was lower, lighter and had a lower centre of gravity compared with the XS650.
 

jetmechmarty

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I'll speculate that yours was a 1971-on Triumph? Mine was a1970 model - built in October 1969, must have been one of the very last of the old-style frame with the separate oil tank. The new Oil-in-Frame model was significantly taller.

My 1970 TR6 was lower, lighter and had a lower centre of gravity compared with the XS650.
Yes, you are correct. The only one I owned was a 1969 Daytona 500. I have friends that owned a 1975 Bonnie and a 1971 Tiger that I had the pleasure to ride. I've ridden a pre oil in frame 650 Triumph, but that memory is foggy. I remember the '71 as very tall.
 

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I wonder if I'm making heavy weather out of rewiring the Bullet? Spending long, cold hours in the garage tracing wires, drawing what's in there, trying to think what needs to change. One aim is to avoid the need for new connector blocks - intend to cut off the blocks, remove or ignore unneeded wires, and where there are changes simply cut and solder in new pieces as required.

But for the underlying layout maybe I can just start with the XS650 diagram, which has served well, and kinda adapt it?

PICT2139.JPG


Power Box instead of rectifier and regulator, points instead of Boyer ignition, omit the electric starter circuit, that sort of thing. Way to go?

At least I'll be sitting in the warm.
 

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Here's the first sketch, loosely based on Miss November's wiring:

PICT2780.JPG

The main change from the existing set-up on the Bullet is the 2-output alternator and omitting the AC circuit to the headlamp.

Not all colours confirmed, for example, the Neutral wire. And there will be come cogitation required to utilise the existing harness connectors for the new system AND the totally different colours in the new handlebar switches. No smoke, though, Bob - that's why I need to draw it all out first.

And I'm still confussed about a few things. Like there's two wires to the coil, one red/white looks like power feed and the other red/black routes back to the ignition switch but does not seem to go through the Kill switch? And there's just a single brown/black wire to the points, called the contact breaker on the factory wiring diagram, but I cannot see how that will cause the coil to spark. So there's an understanding gap as well as a points gap . . .
 

Raymond

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Do you have any info/literature on that Boyer power box Raymond?
Not a lot. But looking at BB's website:

The power box is a self regulating rectifier with an internal current and voltage storing capacitor. Output 13/14 volts DC (charging 12 volts) just right for charging a 12 volt battery or running the electrics direct. The unit has been designed using the latest power technology semi-conductors to provide stable, direct current from standard permanent magnet alternators.

Mine is PBOX00108 single phase power box alternator regulator. Intended for Any permanent magnet alternator single phase 2 or 3 wire up to 180 watts.

Boyer don't give much spec apart from the dimensions, but they do provide a wiring diagram which I have used for guidance. Available here:

http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/PBOX00108.pdf

I guess PO has fitted the box as a direct replacement for the Enfield rectifier & regulator. Certainly not to covert to 12v or for battery-free running.

The existing set-up for the 4-wire alternator uses two wires, four coils, which would originally have gone to the rec & reg. The other two wires, two coils, go to the AC regulator and the headlamp only. Splitting the output was the factory work-round to allow headlamp-on operation with a low-power alternator.

The 2-wire alternator I'm waiting for has a higher output than the OEM so it should be OK running everything on a normal DC system. But I'd like to replace bulbs with LEDs if I can to reduce the load.

 

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Still a bit confussed about how to wire the ignition circuit. This sketch shows how the circuit looks at the moment - "A".
And how I think it ought to look - "B".

PICT2783.JPG

For simplicity, have shown only the ignition switch, kill switch, points and coil.

It's more than possible I have made a mistook in recording what I found pulling it all apart. But in scheme "A" I can't see how the points would trigger the coil.

But then electrics are known to rely on magic anyhow . . .
 

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My cogitations on the Bullet electrics have reached this point:

PICT2785.JPG

As you will see this is a lot simpler than the present system. For one thing, no AC headlamp circuit. Also, by doing away with the starter motor, have been able to avoid the starter cutout and interlinks to the clutch, etcetera.

But there is some guesswork. Hope I have understood the ignition side of things and hope I have the power feed from the Boyer rec/reg in a suitable place.

Soon find out when I switch the bike on and nothing works, I suppose. And at least tracing a fault should be fairly easy . . .
 

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Have started the re-wire. It might look like I've just soldered everything all together but that's just the angle:

PICT2790.JPG



They are all separate pairs with a length of heat-shrink in place to keep 'em separate.

Bit scary, to use the modern idiom, cutting all the wires off two perfectly good switch blocks and then soldering everything to different colours. But if I have done my calculations correctly . . .

Bob still waiting for the smoke.
 

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Bit scary, to use the modern idiom, cutting all the wires off two perfectly good switch blocks and then soldering everything to different colours. But if I have done my calculations correctly . . .

I have a confession to make, on my XS2 , the left hand switchgear had a broken push switch for the headlight. At first I found a brand new switch made for a Yamaha enduro that was laid out exactly like my stock switch, but it had totally different color wires and the part that really made my head spin, was it had several extra wires. I just couldn’t get my head around it. So I wound up collecting parts from a couple other old switches and repairing the original. :shrug:
 

jetmechmarty

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Have started the re-wire. It might look like I've just soldered everything all together but that's just the angle:

View attachment 204509


They are all separate pairs with a length of heat-shrink in place to keep 'em separate.

Bit scary, to use the modern idiom, cutting all the wires off two perfectly good switch blocks and then soldering everything to different colours. But if I have done my calculations correctly . . .

Bob still waiting for the smoke.
It looks like you've done a proper soldering job, especially in keeping it from wicking up the insulation. I struggle with that, so I resort to other means.
 

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The only thing I'll add is that when making multiple splices like that, I try to stagger them (cut the wires at different lengths) so they don't all end up side by side. That tends to put a pretty big lump in the loom at that spot.
 

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Not read through it all but there is something sticking out
There is 2 wires going in to the lights ON / OFF
But electrically speaking that is branching from the same potential
With nothing in between downstream The " Normal " Would be one wire only and branching inside .
No harm probably depending on the switch internals . But can be worth checking
 

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Raymond

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Not read through it all but there is something sticking out
There is 2 wires going in to the lights ON / OFF
But electrically speaking that is branching from the same potential
With nothing in between downstream The " Normal " Would be one wire only and branching inside .
No harm probably depending on the switch internals . But can be worth checking
The same occurred to me, so I've implemented it as just one feed to the 3-way light switch. I guess thinking two feeds were needed was due to the way the old switch was wired, with AC to the headlamp and DC to the tail and side lights. But it will all be DC now.

The other change I'm planning, compared with the diagram at post #152, is putting power box feed after the ignition switch and ammeter. Still not sure where it oughta go, but somebody else commenting on the diagram said where I've shown the feed will prevent the ammeter working properly.

The wiring might need a bit of tinkering to have everything working in the end?
 

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Been randomly hacking wires out and joining others together so this is what the wiring system looks like now:


PICT2794.JPG


But I like the office with the new alloy switch blocks:

PICT2795.JPG


Fitting them? Well, apart from having to undertake major re-wiring, the final insult was the throttle barrel won't fit inside the lower half of the r/h switch unit. And when it's in the upper half, the cable is pulled and the carb slide is nearly up. I must have thought about this problemo for two or three minutes before I took up me craft knife and hacked away most of the nylon part of the throttle barrel that holds the cable. That's better, carb slide much more closed now.

So, pulled the Bullet out into the cold January yard and kicked it over. No choke, started second kick. Tick-over is a bit too high, so I'll need to wield the craft knife again. But it's the first time I've heard the engine run since the day the bike arrived, 16th November.


PICT2793.JPG


Let it warm up for ten minutes then switched it off. Ahem, key off but engine running on. Pulled the decompressor and it stopped. As far as I can see, nothing else is on, lights horn etcetera. Must be a logical error in the wiring.

Problem for another day, today has been a good day for my Bullet.
 
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