2003 Royal Enfield 500 Deluxe

Raymond

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29th December - post #152 - put up a wiring diagram and was not too sure about where the power feed from the Boyer box should go. On advice from another source, was told that the ammeter needed to be downstream of the ignition switch and the power feed needed to be downstream of the ammeter. This is all about letting the ammeter work properly. So the wiring I have implemented over the past few days has been more like this:

PICT2796.JPG


The relevant change is the feed from the Boyer box now joins the circuit after the ignition switch.

But with the engine running on after switching off, Ima thinking maybe the little electrons from the alternator aren't getting the message that the party's over so they're racing along through the kill switch, coil and points? That ignition switch is a kill-joy with no relevance to their fun.

A good test of this hypothesis would be to simply disconnect the feed wire - engine should stop as soon as Ignition is turned off.

But I think the solution is to revert to my earlier sketch and put the feed between the battery and the ignition. Anybody foresee any problems with that?

Gonna have to do a lot of tidying up anyhow.
 

Raymond

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Did the experiment. Unhooked the power feed, kick-started the engine and warmed it up. Switched the ignition Off and the engine immediately stopped as expected. First thought is to put the power feed where it was on the original sketch, between battery and ignition switch. Easiest place to splice it is at the fuse box. Which promptly fell apart - that little brass contact just fell off the wire:

PICT2797.JPG

Cheapo fuse box which I intend to replace anyway. Bugger, that means a wait for a new fuse box. Had come back to the house to start looking at fuse boxes on that internet - and warm myself up - when the thought struck me, there's a fuse box on the BatteryFighter lead!


PICT2798.JPG


Quick snip, this won't hurt, replace the ring terminal on the new bare end, and the charging lead will be the same as those on W800 and XS650 neither of which has a fuse. And of course the Enfield will benefit, major upgrade to a blade-type fuse.

Know what I'll be doing tomorrow. Playing around with old motorbikes is fun. Sometimes.
 

Jim

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29th December - post #152 - put up a wiring diagram and was not too sure about where the power feed from the Boyer box should go. On advice from another source, was told that the ammeter needed to be downstream of the ignition switch and the power feed needed to be downstream of the ammeter. This is all about letting the ammeter work properly. So the wiring I have implemented over the past few days has been more like this:

View attachment 205116


The relevant change is the feed from the Boyer box now joins the circuit after the ignition switch.

But with the engine running on after switching off, Ima thinking maybe the little electrons from the alternator aren't getting the message that the party's over so they're racing along through the kill switch, coil and points? That ignition switch is a kill-joy with no relevance to their fun.

A good test of this hypothesis would be to simply disconnect the feed wire - engine should stop as soon as Ignition is turned off.

But I think the solution is to revert to my earlier sketch and put the feed between the battery and the ignition. Anybody foresee any problems with that?

Gonna have to do a lot of tidying up anyhow.
If it were me.... and I think this is what you're planning... I'd go, in order:
Battery
Fuse
Ammeter
Boyer feed
Ignition sw.
Everything else

One key point to remember is the battery and alternator output need to be on opposite sides of the ammeter from each other. We need current to flow across it, so it can tell you if it's going into or out of the battery.
 

Raymond

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One key point to remember is the battery and alternator output need to be on opposite sides of the ammeter from each other. We need current to flow across it, so it can tell you if it's going into or out of the battery.

Thanks, Jim, that makes sense.

I couldn't understand the wiring that was in there to start with - the ignition switch had four wires, one from the battery, one to most electrical components, one to the coil (or was it to the points) and one to earth. Apparently, and this explanation is screwed because I don't understand it meself, the connection between the coil/points and earth was open when the switch was Off. Switch On and power flows from battery to wherever it's needed, switch Off and you immediately ground the ignition circuit. I don't know why it was wired thus. Have heard a suggestion that this is a safer way to wire things to avoid parasitic drain if there's an internal problem in the ammeter?? I dunno.

Hell, I might have to go down that route again if there's some problem arises and bites me but for now, just trying to keep things simple. So simple even I might understand.
 

Jim

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switch Off and you immediately ground the ignition circuit.
I suppose it could have been wired as a magneto? One coil from the PMA goes directly to the ign. coil. On a magneto engine (lawn mower, airplane... etc) that wire is grounded to kill the engine just as you describe.... dunno
As far as parasitic drain from the ammeter... that's pretty unlikely. Just about all I've ever dealt with were wired direct to the battery.

zz.png
 

Raymond

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If it were me.... and I think this is what you're planning... I'd go, in order:
Battery
Fuse
Ammeter
Boyer feed
Ignition sw.
Everything else

One key point to remember is the battery and alternator output need to be on opposite sides of the ammeter from each other. We need current to flow across it, so it can tell you if it's going into or out of the battery.
Sorry, bear of small brain, don't really understand magnetos co'z I've never had to deal with one.

But for wire #1, battery to ignition switch, I'll go with that order of components for now.
 

Raymond

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Thanks Jim, beginning to feel it's all a bit clearer. Here's the latest wiring diagram:

PICT2799.JPG

Must be at least the 4th or 5th sketch but I'm hoping that's it. Wasted some time because of misdirection about where to put the power feed, which led to running on.

Today, tank off and have started looking at wires, grunting, snipping, pairing them off ready to implement the above tomorrow.
 

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Thanks Jim, beginning to feel it's all a bit clearer. Here's the latest wiring diagram:

View attachment 205222

Must be at least the 4th or 5th sketch but I'm hoping that's it. Wasted some time because of misdirection about where to put the power feed, which led to running on.

Today, tank off and have started looking at wires, grunting, snipping, pairing them off ready to implement the above tomorrow.
Get some more fusing in that diagram.
You don't want to be bowling down the road when a minor short in a tail light blows the only / main fuse and the engine dies, quite possibly mid-overtake.
 

Raymond

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Grimly, good idea, have invested in another little fuse box. Need to decide where to put it, probably in the line to the lights On/Off switch.

But today, put the bike back together:


PICT2801.JPG


At the moment, say it quietly, everything electrical works. New higher-rated alternator, re-wired headlamp to run D/C, new handlebar switches. The biggest job today was making a pair of brackets to hold the saddle on. PO had made little brackets from thin sheets of alloy, totally inadequate. Today, cut a tyre lever in pieces and drilled out screw holes. No big deal, but doing it with a hacksaw and a hand-held drill took longer than I would ever have believed.

Rode the bike down the back lane - need to tax it before venturing out on the roads.
 

Grimly

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Today, cut a tyre lever in pieces and drilled out screw holes. No big deal, but doing it with a hacksaw and a hand-held drill took longer than I would ever have believed.
Proper bench fitting.
Apprentices used to be well acquainted with the file.
I recall the moment of joy when I finally filed the last thou off the 1" cube and heaved it through the workshop window.
 

Raymond

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Gear change is not good. Hard to find neutral - there is the neutral finder, and that works if I remember to use it while still in motion in second or a higher gear. But from low speed or stationary, it's difficult to find neutral, have to stop the engine and faff about.

First step, take A Look at the clutch:




 

Raymond

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Wiped every plate, slapped it all back together, filled the primary drive with ~440 ml of ATF, because Bulleteers recommend using ATF for good clutch action . . .

Went for a very local test and clutch action still poor. Able to select first and set off, but gearchanges reluctant and still unable to select neutral at a standstill, or even as I coasted slowly back into the yard.

Had another go at adjusting the cable, another test and it's a bit better. Able to change gear more easily, but still unable to select neutral at a standstill.

Enough for today, light fading anyway. There will be further attempts to improve the adjustment.

Makes me appreciate my XS650 with it's easy-to-adjust and works-nicely-once-it's-right clutch. Really.

There are positives. The Bullet is very easy to start and the electrics work despite my tinkering. Not gonna tempt fate by saying too much but even with the headlamp etc switched, on provided there's a few revs, the ammeter shows battery being charged.
 

Raymond

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Prolly goes without saying Raymond, but did you check the plates are true and not warped?
Thank you Jim, but does not go without saying. I looked at the clutch basket to make sure it wasn't notched where the plates go and looked at the plates to make sure they weren't damaged, burnt, friction material worn or missing. Everything looked nearly new, after all the bike has only covered 6000 miles. Cleaned each plate, keeping them in the right order - the plain plates are dished where they fit over the hub and each one is unique. But clean forgot to check they were flat. Doh!

They form a nice 'pack' so I guess if any were seriously bent it would have been obvious. Maybe not . . .

But meanwhile there are a few more variables to look at. The Pete Snidal book - some Bullet owners think of it as a bible - book gives additional guidance which I don't yet fully understand on adjusting the clutch . And there are adjustments which can be made inside the gearbox outer cover to the change mechanism and the neutral finder. So taking a look under the outer cover will be a good idea.

Plus it might be worth taking a look at the gearbox lube. The Albion four-speed gearbox is a venerable device, that according to most sources should be filled with grease or a mixture of grease and oil. Wot? Apparently, some owners cook up a mixture of grease and gear oil. Have seen one report of somebody who decided to just put SAE 90 gearbox oil and found it leaked. So my guess is that the gearbox design is so ancient there isn't anything new-fangled like an oil seal?

Obviously, need to check there is something in there. But the decision to change the gearbox lube has, uhm, not yet been taken.

If I don't manage to get it working acceptably, I'll be back in the clutch and will make a note to check the plates are flat this time.

I can see that I'm just putting off the day when I decide to rebuild the gearbox.
 

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Just curious if you have an exploded drawing of the gearbox. Triumph Tiger Cub gearboxes had a layshaft that ended below the tranny sprocket, it rode in a bushing (plane bearing) the end of which was exposed to the cavity where the drive chain ran. As such could not be properly sealed and would allow dirt ingress.
 
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