256 vs 447 motor differences

throbbing vibrations..... feel eager
Easy there boyo!
A bit is the engine, but stiffer, heavier, frame, swing arm, damping, mounts etc improved, even the forks were a bit better. The early bikes had a rep as being whippy, flexible fliers.
The few miles I've put on the 70 haven't seemed all that different. Though I approach riding it differently than say riding madness.
 
Have a read here Bob.

1977+Yamaha+XS650D+road+test+1.jpg
 
Thanks Jim. Pretty honest discussion of the evolution and capabilities of the 650. I was surprised by both the weight and the horsepower peak RPM. Webco dyno was the gold standard in the 70's.
I think it needs a place as a sticky in the tech section.
 
Thanks Jim. Pretty honest discussion of the evolution and capabilities of the 650. I was surprised by both the weight and the horsepower peak RPM. Webco dyno was the gold standard in the 70's.
I think it needs a place as a sticky in the tech section.
Well... how 'bout a new thread on road tests. ;)
 
Thanks for the correction, Jack! Didn't realize that Mark's dual coil models put the timing plate outboard. Probe Engineering is still in business, but the ignition systems weren't making any money and Mark had to pull the plug on them. I guess not enough guys were willing to spend a few bucks more for the best.
 
OK, I'm a curmudgeon, but comparisons of the XS650 to the Triumph Bonneville make me cringe. From where I sit the machines are not similar in any way except for having 2 wheels, 2 cylinders, and a 360* firing order.

Let's get down to basics. Weight: The stock XS650D is nearly 100 lbs. heavier than the 650 Triumph Bonnie. If you think that doesn't affect handling, you've never put your Yamaha on a diet and slimmed the fat b____ down. Forks and shocks: First class Girling dampers on the Trunch. On the Yamaha, good enough to hold the bike up off the tires. Steering: Dead linear on the Triumph, pronounced oversteer at deep heel on the Yamaha, due chiefly to top heaviness.The list could go on, but the bottom line on handling is that the Trunch would dance right out of the box and the Yamaha needs a lot of time and money to achieve anything close.

But in design and construction of the engine and electrics, the Yamaha completely outclasses the Triumph. Triumph: pushrod valve train with external pushrod towers sealed with O-rings. Usual service interval between valve jobs (and I mean cut-and-lap, kiddies, not lash adjustment): ~20K miles if you were lucky. Chain type primary drive. Weepy engine covers due to shoddy fit and finish. Electrics by the Lord of Darkness. And very frequent tuneup sessions to keep the beast running well enough to justify giving it a home in spite of its evil ways.The Yamaha may look like a high maintenance machine compared to modern designs, but AFAIK the only motorcycles from the period that asked for less maintenance were the /2 series BMWs. I've always wondered why Yamaha and the other Japanese makers could outclass the Americans, Brits, and Italians in engine, drive train, and electrical system quality, but wouldn't give equal attention to frames, brakes, dampers, and bulk.
 
But in design and construction of the engine and electrics, the Yamaha completely outclasses the Triumph.
Not just Triumph, all the British bikes.
There real competition was the other Jap companies. At that point in time it was all about horsepower. Brakes and suspension were afterthoughts. Look at the Kawi Mach machines. The biggest test in the magazines was the 1/4 mile run. Pee Wee Gleason made a name for himself getting the most out of stock bikes. Same for the off road bikes. The early moto-cross bikes were motorized pogo-sticks. In the late 70's early 80's they got serious about suspension and brakes. Not so much different than Detroit.
 
Yup - totally agree with the analysis presented by Grizld1 above. I have never owned a BritBike but I have always been impressed by their lightness and have heard about the steady handling.

My Uncle Dave (my Dad’s younger brother - about 11 years older than me) had a ‘66-67 Triumph Tiger 500 and even though I was a little kid and it was around 50 years ago, I clearly remember three things about it:

1) Every year, he took the engine out and rebuilt it.
2) There always seemed to be something wrong with it - even after all the work.
3) He loved riding it.

In 1971, he traded the Triumph Tiger in on a brand new Kawasaki H1 Mach IIII 500 - which he still owns and rides occasionally. He has been told that it is one of the very few Mach IIIs sold in Canada that has never been put through a fence or hit a tree - and the engine has never been apart.

Overall, I would characterize the Triumph / BSA / Nortons as “fun to ride, but not fun to own”.

Pete
 
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I loved my ‘76 T-140V Bonneville. It really was light and handled beautifully. I restored it with brand new Amal carburetors and new switchgear for the handlebars, and a fresh top end. By the time I was done with it it was more new bike than old bike. At that point it was reliable and started easily, idled perfectly and in a moment of weakness I sold it! :( I’ve always regretted that decision.
 
Always loved the way my Bonnies and Nortons handled, but here's the odd bit.... the R5's RD350's I've had would carve though a corner with the best of 'em.
I mean.... it's not like Yamaha didn't have the experience.... :umm:
 
Always loved the way my Bonnies and Nortons handled, but here's the odd bit.... the R5's RD350's I've had would carve though a corner with the best of 'em.
I mean.... it's not like Yamaha didn't have the experience.... :umm:

You know, that’s true. I forgot I had that RD350 30 years before my Bonneville!
 
Oh yeah, the Kaw H1. Rode the evil beast by invitation at the Urbana, IL shop when prerelease units were sent around with factory reps to hype them. Gave the scoot the standard frame flex test--heeled it over hard on the brakes, then released. And of course the nasty thing stood right up, as I more than half expected it to. The rep asked me how I liked the machine, and to be polite I said, "It's one helluva motor you got there." Then he went for the close: "When are you going to trade that Triumph in on one?" Answer: "I dunno, when will you have a frame and some brakes to go with that motor?"
 
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Yeah, handling on Yamaha and Suzuki midweights was OK, but it only felt impressive if you hadn't ridden a Bultaco Metralla or Ducati Diana.
 
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