$400 find? hells effing yeah ill build a money pit!

[Zombis]

Just picked up a 1980 xs 650 special II for $400 in San Jose Bike is a non runner with great compression in both cylinders but sat for a very long time. figured I would just go over it and see if i find anything wrong.
Cleaned all the crap, scale, rust, and floaters out of the tank using electrolysis and lots of nuts and screws. vacuum petcock? NOT NEEDED!!! ordering on off reserve petcock from mikes xs once I finish going over the bike and can make a list. but for the meantime the local salvage yard had a new petcock diaphragm. so for now i guess ill just use it.

Finally got around to cleaning the carbs. 2 carb bowl gaskets on each carb and missing a Pilot circuit plugs. cleaned everything out really good and put the carbs back on the bike. Bike is dumping fuel out of both sides of air box forgot to set the floats damn it... Starting to get pretty fast at dismantling this thing.

Got the oil changed and checked the filter and sump they looked alright but the oil smelled like gas. o yeah the bike has 12000 miles on it and brand new tires.

go to kick over the new toy and nothing starter cranks and all the lights come on and battery has a full charge. hmmmm

Must be the spark.

Checked the coils this morning and the spark wires were falling off of the boots not to mention bike had NGK automobile plugs. and freaked out because this bike has no points.... how does this shit work? magic?

TCI

So back to the coils, with attached spark plug wires whatever ill just order a hotter coil from mikes xs. and hopefully it will start and run properly.

Anyone have any clues with the 1980 xs650 in regards to rejetting after installing xs performance filters? my stock ones look like shit. I hear a lot of people talking about how lean 80 BS34's were jetted and would just like to get a ball park idea the bike has 132.5 mains and a 42.5 pilot jets. btw i live in northern CA and elevation goes from about 500 ft to 4000 in like a hour of driving.

knowledge is always appreciated. i really just want this thing to run.

 

[nj1639]

http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2426

Check out the section titled "xsjohns needle kits"

 

[xjwmx]

I have the same stock jets as you in my '81 and I also still have the mix screws blocked. I have the stock needle. The bike doesn't complain about it. The plugs don't look lean. The bike doesn't sound lean.

You can check the coil easily with a meter before you buy a new one. You need to take all the connectors on the bike apart and tighten and clean them. Do that and get the carbs clean and it will probably start.

You can read a lot of stuff that will leave you thinking you need to modify every easily modified part of the bike there is before you have a decent running bike. Not so.

 

[chopfather]

Are the xs john needles still available ? I'd like to try a set in my current project when I get to the carb rebuild.

 

[Tech7]

Didya' check for spark? Or are ya just gonna start ordering parts?

 

[Zombis]

Well the cables for the spark wire are mangled on the ends where it goes to the boots, and with the stock coil it doesn't look like i can replace the wires. so that is the only reason I was thinking about buying the parts. at least with the other coils i can change the wires.

 

[xjwmx]

Sure you can. Just unscrew the caps on the coil and unscrew the wires or pull them off. Make new ends in the wires by cutting off a half inch of insulation and bending the internal wires back up the insulation.

 

[angus67]

he has the dual coil. he cant replace them. get mikes performance stock dual coil, 5k caps, gap to .032. nice fat spark. coil is more forgiving if you forget to connect the wire and try to start it(wont fry)
carb---- convert it to canadians- 46 pilot, 140 mains, canadian needles, 3rd slot from top, with matching emulsion tubes, 27mm on floats(make sure they are good, or convert to foam floats. 80 was last year of brass floats.
i did this for a friends 80, except his stock coil was fine. and tried to get him to put pods on it, but he wanted the airboxes. I talked him int a 1" hole between the stock holes in the airbox intake. runs like a champ, starts easy. we are at sea level, so dont know your local, but thats what I did.
I do have johns needls in my 80 with 34's, 140 mains, 46 pilots, modified EMGO pods, performance stock dual coil. new wires, bpr7's at .030. starts easy, no choke, is alittle rich, but its not a smoker or anything, just afraid to burn a piston. its how i got the bike for 50 bucks.

 

[xjwmx]

Wires on a stock '80 coil aren't replaceable like on the replacements?

 

[Gordon]

No XJ, their not. The end's of the plug wires are epoxied into the coil tower's.
On XS John's needles, I went the route of the Canadian part's from Mike's, and I did not like the reading's I got on the plug's. Got a set of needle's from John, set up the way he suggested, and the bike run's great! Nice color on the plug's, kinda like coffe with milk, and the flame on the side electrode is perfect.
However, I am only getting 46-48 mpg. I am running a 17/34 sprocket combo, so That does affect my milage. Like Angus stated, the dual coil from Mike's is allot more forgiving than the Green Monster coil's.
Make sure you have battery voltage at the + side of the coil with the key on, and kill switch in the run position. If not, trace back from the coil to the connector's for corrosion, ect. Very common on OLD machine's for the connections to corrode up. Do not forget to check the kill switch, as that is an area often overlooked. To get 'er running temporarily, use a jumper from the battery to the + side of the coil with the key on, you should have spark then while cranking 'er over.

 

[Zombis]

convert it to canadians- 46 pilot, 140 mains, canadian needles, 3rd slot from top

wow that would be awesome to have a adjustable needles. ill have to take that into consideration the next time I tear apart my carbs.

 

[xjwmx]

I forgot the coil I have is a replacement. I bet the old coil could be salvaged somehow if it measures good. But the title of the thread is money pit....
.......

 

[Zombis]

So bought the green dual coil from mikes, tossed some iridium plugs and put some new wires on the coil. charged the battery and nothing. At least both plugs are sparking now.
well not exactly nothing the bike cranks and you can hear it getting close to starting its getting fuel compression and spark why isnt it starting?

I tried putting a small amount of fuel in the cylinders using a spray bottle and still nothing. The bike is a 80 so it is a TCI ignition right? could this be a timing issue? Like I think i said before this is my first xs. bikes ive worked on is a 74 cb750 and a old 74 xl 175.

Could really use some other ideas. BTW I did change the stock main and pilot to the next size up. I installed K&N pods on this bike.

thank you all for your input.

 

[Travis]

If you have the stock exhaust, you may not have needed to go up a size on the mains and pilots even with the air filter change. I would try changing the pilots and mains back to the stock size and it might run. Yes it has a TCI but I think if you're having problems with the TCI then you wouldn't be getting spark. I'm no expert on the TCI thought so I'll let someone else chime in about that.

What exactly did you do to get the carbs clean? Did you change the float needle and seat to stop it from dumping fuel out of the air filter side?

 

[Zombis]

to get the fuel to stop dumping I just set the floats again. For some reason the first time i set them i wasn't paying any attention to the needles and they would just dump and dump and dump. ended up being a really dumb mistake on my part. ill put the stock jets back in tomorrow and see if that changes anything. while im at it ill go ahead and use another bottle of carb cleaner on the carbs and go over them again.

 

[gggGary]

Yes it is so tempting to short cut to the run. I know I do it! Anyway I believe the TCI is pretty much works or not, if you have spark timing is fine. I will give it shot of ether in each carb to see if it runs, then get back into the carbs to find the problem. Often missed and covered in the carb overhaul guides in the tech section, is the enricher circuit jet in the float bowls.

 

[Gordon]

Try a new set of new NGK plug's from Auto Zone, put a couple of drop's of oil in the cylinder's before putting in the new plug's, then just a small squirt of ether in each carb and try to fire 'er up. You very well could have 'washed' the cylinder's with the carbs flooding over like they were. Same for the plug's. The NGK's are like $2 a piece, so cheap insurance.
The TCI either work's or it don't, if you got spark, it's working good enough to fire the engine.

 

[Zombis]

Cleaned the hell out of the carbs and reinstalled the stock jets and stock pilots. Im heading out to pick up some starter fluid and some oil to try and see if that helps. I have a set of iridium plugs that are gapped at .8mm in it right now.

I was wondering about the possibility of plugging plugs on the coil backwards? would that possibly cause a no start issue?

 

[XSLeo]

On the 80 up bikes, the TCI fires both plugs at the same time. Refered to as wasted spark.
Swapping the plug wires left to right makes no difference.
I might suggest useing regular plugs to get it running. Once you get it running put in the more expencive plugs. No sence in fouling out the $7 dollar plug, better to foul out a $3 plug.
I don't like using starting fluid. I use gas in a lever pump oil can. Works fine and less apt to hurt anything. When you clean the carbs, the enrichener, choke to some folks, jet in the float bowl is hard to get clean.
It draws fuel in a hole just up from the bottom of the bowl. Through the jet up a passage in the edge of the bowl. If this jet get is plugged the enrichener can't draw fuel. Makes it hard to start.

 

[Zombis]

sprayed a bit of carb cleaner at it and the bike tried to start. like made more sound than ever before.

Im stumped. This to me seems like a fuel issue and i just went through the carbs and sprayed out every single little orifice. anyone have any other ideas?