'75 650B Charging System Guidance Needed

A rewind can like all other human endeavors go wrong
I have a rewound rotor on my bike. It has been been since 2002 that I replaced it. As I recall, it was about 3.5 ohms rather than the prescribed 5 ohms. The stock regulator has dealt with it just fine. Is this what you mean?
 
I have a rewound rotor on my bike. It has been been since 2002 that I replaced it. As I recall, it was about 3.5 ohms rather than the prescribed 5 ohms. The stock regulator has dealt with it just fine. Is this what you mean?

The ones I heard of having problems stops charging .. After a couple of years Open circuit most likely
I don't think anyone knew what the actual resistance should be .
or what it was was out of the rewinding shop. maybe doing a bad job. I don't know how the rewind is performed.
I have been at two different shops one for Automotive and one for Electrical motors in farming and so.
The latter one seemed much more competent and professional.
Having large electrical motors for rewind 50 -75 hp and so Or whatever.
In the early 70 ies even hand held tools was rewound ..

The first time I payed $ 100 for the rewind ( Auto Shop ) 1984 -5 and back then one could not buy a rotor from Yamaha . No internet so nowhere else to go
one had to buy the hole alternator a $ 350 from Yamaha or beg on your knees someone would do the rewind.
Not good on a $ 800 bike.
I think i Payed the same the second time .. $ 100 ca 2009

.
Back then people Just installed and perhaps adjusted the regulator.
It may be so that the stock regulator has adjusting range to cope with a broader range of Resistance variations on the rotor
Your posting gives that possibility
Why else have the adjustment option Besides Brushes of course.
In this case as it seems it is overcharging on low ( rarely so ) and high rpm.
3 regulators has been tried.
I feel it should be possible to make a difference adjusting the stock regulator ( Getting it down ) here in this case.
If not something else is wrong in the wiring
On an electronic regulator that adjustment is not possible as far as I know.
Again if the bike has points there is no sophisticated electronics that can fry that easily.
Provided one can trust the stock regulator this can be an easy fix. In essence an adjustment
" To Keep it simple "
 
Even though it was still working, the reason I swapped out my original stock regulator was that once I started monitoring it's output with a voltmeter, I found it to be very erratic. Even at a steady higher RPM where the output should have been maxed out and steady, it would bounce all over the place, bouncing up and down for no apparent reason. My theory is the vibration messes with the mechanical contacts inside the unit. I figured this had to be stressing the stator and rotor more than need be, more than a steady request for output from the regulator would. This is where the solid state units shine. Having no mechanical contacts or moving parts inside, vibration doesn't affect them. They give a nice, steady output. I went with an automotive VR115 regulator and it's been working well for years.

That being said, I am not a fan of the aftermarket solid state combined reg/rec units. They're very expensive and many are bad right out of the box, as seen here. I think the best and most economical solution is to "build" your own. Now, the term "build" may seem daunting but you're not actually making the reg and rec units, just wiring them up and making mounts .....

http://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/
 
Good Sunday all

Some progress here today!

Out with the new....
IMG_9506.jpg

In with the old...
IMG_9505.jpg

Add a little trial & error adjusting, and.....

At idle:
IMG_9497.jpg

At 3.8k rpm:
IMG_9495.jpg

BELOW EDITED 10/25 DUE TO MY OWN CONFUSION! :redface:

Soooo..... I've spent well over $200 on solid state regulator/rectifier and rotor rebuild.
This will work... but it's adjusting an issue (it's job to a degree) but not fixing an issue.
The solid state regulator wants to overcharge the battery.
That lost 1/2v through the ignition has got to be what's throwing it off because apparently it can only deal with perfect input. It simply cannot/will not "rectify" the voltage differential.
I'm not opposed to tearing down and cleaning the ignition switch and trying again, but it's sure hard for me to accept (no scientific bases for this - just emotion) that a regulator can't properly deal with a 1/2v differential. :umm:

5T, that's good info. on introducing an automotive regulator. I haven't read it completely but will do so tomorrow morning when I'm fresh. Perhaps that system isn't as finicky as my new $100 dust collector.

To those with less experience that are/will read this in the future.... do not throw anything away until you know 100% for sure that your repair/modification is sound! My 47yr old parts just (for the time being) got me back up and running!
 
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Well, the money spent on rewinding the rotor wasn't wasted, you needed that, but the money spent on that fancy aftermarket combo reg/rec was, lol. You can buy the VR115 automotive regulator at most any auto parts store for around $30. But since you have the original working OK, you can shop eBay for one at your leisure and probably save a few bucks. I've scored them for as little as $10 to $12.

What you don't seem to understand is that if the voltage signal sent to the regulator is low, the regulator is going to think the battery is low and attempt to charge it more. So, there may be nothing wrong with your new fancy reg/rec, it's just doing it's normal thing.
 
Progress
I think one of the first things to consider is installing a Voltmeter .. Regardless of other future plans
Last Friday I had charging leaving home but did not make it out of the block before it was gone.
It was a wire to the regulator that had come loose while kick starting .Put it back in and happy days again
Without the voltmeter I would not notice it that quick and could have been stranded.

Again depending on future plans but if Mr Jetmech have had a Rewound rotor out of spec and a stock regulator since 2002
Makes it 20 years and the impression is that he rides the bike a lot.
Again it depends on plans and personal preferences If it works for JetM for 20 years this looks as a solution.
After all the factory shipped bikes in that configuration .. about so .
Tearing down and shift ignition locks and more regulators rectifiers rotors I would probably not do it
With the voltmeter some fine tuning is possible if needed
There are often other things to do on these bikes
 
Update:

This past weekend I decided to go after the 1/2v loss that I was apparently losing through the ignition switch.
So, Saturday morning I removed the gauge console, and further disassembled the gauges w/ their harnesses and the ignition switch w/ its harness.
I opened up the ignition switch before thinking of testing it for resistance and to verify the voltage drop based on the earlier readings taken at the connection back at the voltage regulator. I thought that may've been a good idea just in case the loss was occurring between the switch and the regulator - not in the switch as suspected - like maybe a damaged brown wire or something. But I thought of it too late.
When I got the switch opened (pic) I didn't think it looked too bad - but I followed through and cleaned it up, lubricated and reassembled. Then I polished up all of the connectors on the lead / harness.
When done, I tested for resistance in the "on" position and there was none. My meter reading was .2 ohm and that is the standard acceptable loss attributable to the the meter's own test leads. Then, I used a charged battery from another project I'm working on as a power source to test for the voltage.
13.42v in & 13.42v out!!!! I couldn't be happier!
Continuing on, I cleaned the brown wire in both the headlight bucket and at the connector to the regulator. Then I took a resistance reading of it end to end. Results were .4 ohm loss which I've been told is negligible. I then did the same with the battery and there was no voltage loss at all.
I think I'm good to put the solid state Regulator / Rectifier back on the bike. In theory, being that there's no longer any voltage drop the Regulator should do it's job properly.
I won't know for a short while though b/c I suffer from the project expansion disorder!
The "expansion" found me polishing every single connector (male and female) inside of the headlight bucket as well as the connector to the Regulator. It can only help with the efficiency of the electrical system. And then going further, I ordered an inexpensive Digital Read Voltage Meter and also changed every console & gauge bulb over to LED as well installing a device that flickers the brake light before it goes solid red. A good safety device I think. As of now the only light bulb on the bike that isn't LED is the headlight. The power demands are as near minimal as can possibly be. She's an old gal and the less work she needs to do the better. lol
Regarding the Voltage Meter, I'm assuming that the best place to connect it will be at the point where the brown wire comes off the ignition switch and connects to the brown wire traveling back to the voltage regulator? :umm:
Continuing with my project expansion disorder, before reassembling and testing I'm going to address the floppy speedometer gauge as well as paint the console.
I've researched the floppy gauge thing on the site and found useful information.... but it's off subject to the resolving of my charging and voltage loss issues and I'll address anything worthwhile in another thread if need be.
Back on subject, I have every reason to believe that my issue is resolved, but I'll hold off on the victory dance till it's proven out.
So...more to come.

Some pics b/c some (me :)) like pics:

20211113-01.jpg 20211113-02.jpg 20211113-03.jpg 20211113-04.jpg 20211113-05.jpg 20211113-09.jpg
 
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Hi Jetmechmarty

There's no electrical contact where I lubed. That's where two small 1/2 round plastic nubs ride the high and low spots of the bottom of the ignition body to give "click" positions when the key is turned.
Electrical contact is between those 4 flat round copper contacts and the topside of the piece in this picture.

20211113-05_LI.jpg
 
Hi Jetmechmarty

There's no electrical contact where I lubed. That's where two small 1/2 round plastic nubs ride the high and low spots of the bottom of the ignition body to give "click" positions when the key is turned.
Electrical contact is between those 4 flat round copper contacts and the topside of the piece in this picture.
Good deal!
 
Update:
I owe it to all that have been guiding me to somewhat end the story.
I've been delayed through the holidays and my contribution to being a Covid statistic.
After the thorough cleaning of the ignition switch and all connectors and proving out no voltage drop I put the replacement Electrosport solid state regulator back in. Still overcharges in the 15.4 volt range but at 800 rpm (a slower idle than I keep the bike tuned too) it drops to about 13.2 volts. So it's doing something, but not doing it right.
Everything else (electrically speaking) is perfect,
Some more email exchanges with the folks at Electrosport and - you guessed it - sending the replacement back so they can look it over :banghead:
Tired of the charade, when I pulled the Electrosport out I reinstalled the original rectifier and regulator.
Technically speaking, the problem is resolved if I take no further action.
At a 800 rpm I'm getting 13.08 volts
Reg 3.jpg

At 3300 rpm I'm getting 14.47 volts
Reg 1.jpg

Unless these figures are too high, I'm leaving it and hoping that the folks at Electrosport offer me a refund as we part company.
If I need to adjust, let me know.
Also, along the way of pulling the ignition switch apart I took the time to repaint my console and gauge covers as well as fix the floppy gauges due to the dried up rubber dampers.
And lastly, I added a volt meter.
Reg 2.jpg

If Electrosport sends me back another unit I'm simply going to put it on the shelf or sell it. I'm done with the changing out.

All of your guidance and suggestions is very much appreciated!!!!
 
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you put your switch back together as shown in this pic, you've assembled a couple of the parts incorrectly .....

Nx8Z7nr.jpg


First, the metal housing should be flipped around 180° so the little notch in it and the attached wire clip are on the bottom. By the "bottom", I'm referring to the side where the mounting ear tabs run almost straight out. They angle up more on the "top" side .....

eryQ936.jpg


The 2nd error concerns that plastic part that fits on top of the lock cylinder. It should be placed on the lock cylinder first, and then the metal housing placed over it, trapping it between the two .....

3gh4BbL.jpg


rdoJ45b.jpg
 
Yes, I caught it after taking pics and posting. Didn’t see the sense in reposting a day later. That pic was taken a couple of months ago.
The switch is perfect.
Thank you though
 
As we all at some point realize,whether or not we like to admit it,mechanically speaking,I don’t know everything as well as I should or more appropriately stated I would like to.After a year of getting more acquainted to Sidecars, this winters priority for our keeper 75b is a correct charging system go through.I’ll be on it come Thanksgiving or shortly after and referring to this thread often.As the song goes,”Your all I need”.Again a thank-you all for sharing.🤝👍
 
Finally got around to getting some voltage readings..

  • 13.05v immediately after disconnecting battery tender
  • 12.22v after sitting overnight w/o battery tender
  • 11.35v w/ key on and regulator completely disconnected
.87v drop.

Is this acceptable?

As a reminder, regulator is pumping over 15v into the battery and I'm trying to determine if the new electronic regulator is defective.

Thoughts?

I know this is a old thread, but I bought that same regulator and it’s horrible. I’ve been contacting customer service all week. I would put the old mechanical one on. Mine did the same thing, charging at over 15 V.
 
What hasn't been done is to reinstall the new Reg/Rect to see if the switch is the culprit to the over charging the Reg/Rect was doing. Until a comparison is made, (before and after), any conclusion is speculation.

@75XSFLORIDA A dirty switch is a common denominator in this thread and your thread
 
What hasn't been done is to reinstall the new Reg/Rect to see if the switch is the culprit to the over charging the Reg/Rect was doing. Until a comparison is made, (before and after), any conclusion is speculation.

@75XSFLORIDA A dirty switch is a common denominator in this thread and your thread

Wouldn’t i have overcharging with OEM mechanical regulator if everything was switch related?? Why do us both have acceptable charging with factory unit and with same non oem one we do not? Why does OEM one not overcharge even IF switch it giving a tad of resistance?
 
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