79’ 650 New Reg/Rec Causing Electrical Issues?

[Thraxxface]

The stator looks to b for an 80 and later. Mike's sells their stater that has the mounting holes for the 80-84 Factory TCI pickup.

IF....your bike has points then the wiring on the stator needs to b sorted as per 5twins.

MikesXS's instructions to wire up the 70-79 Reg/rect are for an 80 and later model XS with the factory Electronic ignition......NOT..for a points model.

mikesXS instructions for 70-79 Reg/Rect
THIS IS WRONG FOR 70-79 REG/RECT
View attachment 335444


A 70-79 points model Reg/rect should b wired up as per the instructions in the link I posted in the previous post and quoted post

Others have been discussing your stator, You need to identify the stator and the brush wiring so it works with the reg/rect in my link

It’s some aftermarket meant to fit all. Sorry I disappeared for a few hours. I spent a little time being upset. I unplugged the regulator side of the new Reg/Rec and reinstalled the OEM. It charges again. I have a faulty device. I tested the charge at 3k RPMs and only 13.4v. I’m just going to cut my loses here and ride it til it dies. I’m going to replace with a PMA and eliminate the issue all together.

As for the Reg/Rec, I followed Mikes instructs to an extent. I ended up modifying the wire paths which turned out to be the exact same thing that’s in the link you just posted. Thank you, you confirmed that I wasn’t going crazy.

 

[650Skull]

Read this before making up your mind on a PMA.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/79’-650-new-reg-rec-causing-electrical-issues.67127/post-857175

Never installed one but by all accounts the Vape PMA system i a good one. Like mot good things the price reflects the quality. Do a search on Vape PMA's on here to get knowledgeable on them

The other option i to buy a second hand stater, (very rare for the Factory stater to fail), and a rewound Rotor. Could buy a good, (or one that doesn't work), second hand factory one and get @Jim to do a rewind. Coupled with an Automotive regulator and 3 Phase bridge Rectifier your charging woes should be over. Being a 79 with points, Post #2 in the link below is the B type for your bike

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

 

[Thraxxface]

Read this before making up your mind on a PMA.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/79’-650-new-reg-rec-causing-electrical-issues.67127/post-857175

Never installed one but by all accounts the Vape PMA system i a good one. Like mot good things the price reflects the quality. Do a search on Vape PMA's on here to get knowledgeable on them

The other option i to buy a second hand stater, (very rare for the Factory stater to fail), and a rewound Rotor. Could buy a good, (or one that doesn't work), second hand factory one and get @Jim to do a rewind. Coupled with an Automotive regulator and 3 Phase bridge Rectifier your charging woes should be over. Being a 79 with points, Post #2 in the link below is the B type for your bike

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

I’m going to look into the Vape PMA but I’ve been looking into the TC Bros PMA. It’s got all the pieces ready specifically for this bike. I’m going to be leaving tomorrow morning to go camping in Ohio for a week. Either one I choose I’m gonna have it delivered next day to an AutoZone that’s on my way to Ohio. I’ll just pick it up and install it when I get it the campsite.

As for that Reg/Rec page, I’ve added a bookmark to my browser like I did with the expanded charging system guide. I read through that one pretty regularly. I’m sure this page will come in handy too.

 

[Its been a long time]

I’m going to look into the Vape PMA but I’ve been looking into the TC Bros PMA. It’s got all the pieces ready specifically for this bike. I’m going to be leaving tomorrow morning to go camping in Ohio for a week. Either one I choose I’m gonna have it delivered next day to an AutoZone that’s on my way to Ohio. I’ll just pick it up and install it when I get it the campsite.

As for that Reg/Rec page, I’ve added a bookmark to my browser like I did with the expanded charging system guide. I read through that one pretty regularly. I’m sure this page will come in handy too.

Myself, I would give it serious thought before fitting a PMA in place of a good but stock charging system. Anecdotally, there's more posts from people having issues with the PMA systems than there is people having stock charging system problems.

 

[650Skull]

TC Bros sell XS Charge PMA systems.
XS Charge is MikesXS gear that TC Bros buy from Mike'sXS. .........

 

[Thraxxface]

Myself, I would give it serious thought before fitting a PMA in place of a good but stock charging system. Anecdotally, there's more posts from people having issues with the PMA systems than there is people having stock charging system problems.

That’s something I’m going to have to invest into and I’ll most likely do so. I have some expendable cash so in this moment I’m willing to throw away the money for the XS Charge as a temporary fix. Then I can set that to the side as a backup in case anything were ever to go wrong with the Vape. Either way when I got the bike it would charge at 13.9-14.2V. Now it’s at something like 13.2-13.4V so she’s giving me the hints that she’s sick.

TC Bros sell XS Charge PMA systems.
XS Charge is MikesXS gear that TC Bros buy from Mike'sXS. .........

Yeah, I’m aware of that. Mike charges $100 overnight shipping and TC Bros is like $20 plus I have a 10% off coupon that I never got from Mike.

 

[Jan_P]

I’m going to look into the Vape PMA but I’ve been looking into the TC Bros PMA. It’s got all the pieces ready specifically for this bike. I’m going to be leaving tomorrow morning to go camping in Ohio for a week. Either one I choose I’m gonna have it delivered next day to an AutoZone that’s on my way to Ohio. I’ll just pick it up and install it when I get it the campsite.

As for that Reg/Rec page, I’ve added a bookmark to my browser like I did with the expanded charging system guide. I read through that one pretty regularly. I’m sure this page will come in handy too.

You will need tools A rotor Puller of the special type or the rotor sitting there can be damaged .

 

[Thraxxface]

You will need tools A rotor Puller of the special type or the rotor sitting there can be damaged .

I ordered the puller tool with the parts. Unfortunately, about 75 miles into our journey the left cylinder started to lose compression and by the 80 mile mark, as I was getting off the highway, I lost compression in the left cylinder completely. I’m not sure what caused the problem but I had to stash her away at a local auto shop until I can come back and bring her home.

 

[650Skull]

Read this before making up your mind on a PMA.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/79’-650-new-reg-rec-causing-electrical-issues.67127/post-857175

Never installed one but by all accounts the Vape PMA system i a good one. Like mot good things the price reflects the quality. Do a search on Vape PMA's on here to get knowledgeable on them

The other option i to buy a second hand stater, (very rare for the Factory stater to fail), and a rewound Rotor. Could buy a good, (or one that doesn't work), second hand factory one and get @Jim to do a rewind. Coupled with an Automotive regulator and 3 Phase bridge Rectifier your charging woes should be over. Being a 79 with points, Post #2 in the link below is the B type for your bike

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

Doh...........i linked to your thread.

There was another thread running the same time as yours. The guy had a PMA, (from MikesXS where he had gone through 2 of his Reg/rectifiers in the lat 2 years. He is looking to change to the factory Stater/Rotor.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/‘78-xs650-charging-system-questions.67130/

Going to an XS charge PMA you might b jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

Shame about your troubles. Have you checked the tappets are till in speck. If the Adjuster backed off on the rocker it could cause the same symptoms.

 

[Its been a long time]

Doh...........i linked to your thread.

There was another thread running the same time as yours. The guy had a PMA, (from MikesXS where he had gone through 2 of his Reg/rectifiers in the lat 2 years. He is looking to change to the factory Stater/Rotor.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/‘78-xs650-charging-system-questions.67130/

Going to an XS charge PMA you might b jumping from the frying pan to the fire.

Shame about your troubles. Have you checked the tappets are till in speck. If the Adjuster backed off on the rocker it could cause the same symptoms.

I agree with 650Skull on that. The more I read here about it, the aftermarket PMA systems are in general more trouble than they're worth. Perhaps in part due to poor quality regulators? High quality regulators are expensive. I doubt any of the kits supply high end hardware? Would make the kits even more expensive.

 

[Jan_P]

I ordered the puller tool with the parts. Unfortunately, about 75 miles into our journey the left cylinder started to lose compression and by the 80 mile mark, as I was getting off the highway, I lost compression in the left cylinder completely. I’m not sure what caused the problem but I had to stash her away at a local auto shop until I can come back and bring her home.

Grasping at straws here .But with a weak Charging and a Voltage drop in wiring it can drop one cylinder because of that
75 miles is about what it will run on battery only.
CSF rule Cheapest Simplest First charge the battery and try to kick start .See if it will run

 

[Thraxxface]

Grasping at straws here .But with a weak Charging and a Voltage drop in wiring it can drop one cylinder because of that
75 miles is about what it will run on battery only.
CSF rule Cheapest Simplest First charge the battery and try to kick start .See if it will run

Alright, I’m back and out of my post vacation funk. The battery was full when the cylinder began to die. It didn’t die completely and when I came back to the bike a week and some days later the battery still had full charge. It seems to want to fire off and it does on occasion however when it does fire off it backfires pretty badly. It’ll mostly backfire out of the exhaust but on occasion it fires into the carburetor and I can see the gas vapor cloud come out the carb. My guess is that it’s building up compression and not releasing it properly until the pressure forces it way out, hitting oxygen, and igniting. In turn that would most likely be valves?

 

[Thraxxface]

If this is correct then that would most likely confirm that the PO tore down the engine and didn’t time it right. Hence the previous question about the timing marks not being aligned. I’m going to check for broken, bent, or out of wack valves next. I hope the valves are out of wack.

 

[Thraxxface]

Might I add that my left exhaust pipe is as pretty as a rainbow.

 

[Jan_P]

If I get it right machine is on points
A picture of the top left side can help
And Please check the sparking going on at the points when running
have the advance unit been checked
or points replaced and gapped .?

 

[Thraxxface]

If I get it right machine is on points
A picture of the top left side can help
And Please check the sparking going on at the points when running
have the advance unit been checked
or points replaced and gapped .?

I get off of work at 5. I’ll go ahead and snap some pics of the valves with the covers off. While I’m at it I’m going to take my endoscope and shove it down the left cylinder so I can get some photos of the inside for you. I can tell just by shining a light inside that the piston head is absolutely filthy. I can take a q tip and dab it lightly on one spot on the piston head and the q tip is solid black. The right cylinder is spotless. This is looking like it’s no longer a reg/rec issue so I’m gonna most likely start a new thread on this topic when I get home.

 

[Jan_P]

Maybe I was unclear English not my first language
I was referring to the ignition points
some info there

 

[Thraxxface]

Maybe I was unclear English not my first language
I was referring to the ignition points
some info there

View attachment 336533


View attachment 336532

I took a look at my valve tappets and the points. The left side valve tappets were somehow super tight. I couldn’t even fit the smallest feeler gauge into either exhaust or intake. I don’t know how this happened considering I adjusted everything myself and checked the gapping at least 4 times before leaving without them changing.

As for my points, the bottom point was above .04 specs by maybe .01 so I just brought it back into spec using a .03. The top point was where I had some concern. While spinning the engine I could see both points move like they were supposed to. The bottom point would eventually make contact. The top point would move back and further but at no point did it make contact with the other side. I could easily stick a dime inside that gap and still have space. The points aren’t wore or corroded. Nothing appears to be bent so I adjusted the top one as well.

Give me a minute to upload. The pictures are on my phone.

 

[Thraxxface]

Maybe I was unclear English not my first language
I was referring to the ignition points
some info there

View attachment 336533


View attachment 336532

 

[Its been a long time]

I took a look at my valve tappets and the points. The left side valve tappets were somehow super tight. I couldn’t even fit the smallest feeler gauge into either exhaust or intake. I don’t know how this happened considering I adjusted everything myself and checked the gapping at least 4 times before leaving without them changing.

As for my points, the bottom point was above .04 specs by maybe .01 so I just brought it back into spec using a .03. The top point was where I had some concern. While spinning the engine I could see both points move like they were supposed to. The bottom point would eventually make contact. The top point would move back and further but at no point did it make contact with the other side. I could easily stick a dime inside that gap and still have space. The points aren’t wore or corroded. Nothing appears to be bent so I adjusted the top one as well.

Give me a minute to upload. The pictures are on my phone.

There is a lot of Chinese rubbish out there in the aftermarket for components like points, condensers etc.... I actually had brand new points and condensers that were bad. The issue I had was with the points not reliably closing again when opened. In the end I admitted defeat and converted to electronic ignition. Not saying that is what you should do but I'm very sceptical of a lot of the aftermarket spares out there. If your points are not new Yamaha parts, I'd be wondering about them. Hope that helps.