"A Routine Training Mission"

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We have been told that this Blackhawk helicopter was on a routine training mission at an extraordinarily busy international airport. The Blackhawks are supposed to fly at 300 feet over the Potomac, and the commercial jet was doing a routine, but complicated 3-turn descend-to-land maneuver and was "routinely" at about 600 feet when it was hit (and exploded). This means that the Army is using a busy commercial airport for training and that their helicopters have just a few hundred feet of separation. One might say that we (citizen flying passengers) are being used as guinea pigs in a training obstacle course. This actually is not my observation, it came from a senior retired Armed Forces General a few hours ago.

I rarely take a plane (I think it was 1985 when I last flew) largely because I have had a sense that there is still considerable fine-tuning to be done at airports, and that air traffic control is routinely overburdened.





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We have been told that this Blackhawk helicopter was on a routine training mission at an extraordinarily busy international airport. The Blackhawks are supposed to fly at 300 feet over the Potomac, and the commercial jet was doing a routine, but complicated 3-turn descend-to-land maneuver and was "routinely" at about 600 feet when it was hit (and exploded). This means that the Army is using a busy commercial airport for training and that their helicopters have just a few hundred feet of separation. One might say that we (citizen flying passengers) are being used as guinea pigs in a training obstacle course. This actually is not my observation, it came from a senior retired Armed Forces General a few hours ago.

I rarely take a plane (I think it was 1985 when I last flew) largely because I have had a sense that there is still considerable fine-tuning to be done at airports, and that air traffic control is routinely overburdened.





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There is multiple military installations north and directly opposite the airport, it looks like a communication issue, hard to get good help these days. God bless all the deceased.
 
It's a tragedy regardless of the reason or fault.
When younger I used to live in the Metro DC area and flew in and out of what at the time was DC National Airport, before it became Reagan national.
The main runway aligns with the course of the Potomac River and the planes come in and out via that flight path as standard.
I still lived there back in January of 82 when an ice laden plane clipped a bridge over the river and landed in the river. In spite of the icey conditions there were many survivors from that crash. No so this latest. I remember it so well because until about a week before it happened I worked in Arlington VA and crossed that bridge at the time of the day it was hit.
From what I've heard the choppers transponder was not on and active at the time so apparently air traffic control wasn't aware it was in the area.
My wife and I were at a sports restaurant on Sunday having a pizza and were watching figure skating on one of the screens, the US Championships. I understand that the US Skating team was on board the flight. Such a loss of young life.
 
so apparently air traffic control wasn't aware it was in the area
An audio clip has been released of air traffic control talking to the Blackhawk right up to the moment of the crash. The chopper was told to get behind the passenger jet. An expert just now surmised that the chopper pilot may have mistaken that other plane seen in the CCTV video as the plane air traffic was referring to.



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Sounds as a major mistake is it even legal in peacetime

From what I've heard the choppers transponder was not on and active at the time so apparently air traffic control wasn't aware it was in the area.
 
Why did the plane divert to 33 from 1?

cliff
That is a question that the media seems to not know the answer to. 95% of planes use 1, as you know.
A former Blackhawk pilot was just interviewed, and she stated that at such a busy airport, the chopper pilot should have had 2 co-pilots, one at each window to do visual scans. He only had one. She thought, as other experts are saying, that the pilot misidentified the planes in front of him.


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Why did the plane divert to 33 from 1?

cliff
It didn't divert, it's called *circle to land*... a fairly common practice.
For instance, not all runways have a usable ILS, so the controller will have him shoot the ILS to rwy 1. Once they call the field in sight, they'll break off that approach and circle to land visually on rwy 33. As I said, a common practice.
A former Blackhawk pilot was just interviewed, and she stated that at such a busy airport, the chopper pilot should have had 2 co-pilots, one at each window to do visual scans.
The Crew Chief acts as the 2nd co-pilot. I spent several yrs as a crew chief on Huey's. Monitoring and calling out traffic in a congested environment is the crew chief's primary task when required. So yeah... should have been two sets of "eyes out."

And before we get too deep into blaming the chopper crew, a circling approach is a visual approach. Them two sets of eyeballs should have also been eyes out.



*circle to land*. Even though it's called that, it's not always a circle. In this case it would have been an 'S' turn.
 
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It's very early for "conclusions"
Yes, but offering one's supposition seems to be a human inclination. We are all trying to figure out what caused this horrible tragedy. 95% of the many experts I've heard, most of them former chopper pilots, have provided their take on what probably happened. Even Pete Hegseth offered his supposition today, upsetting the communications folks; he said quite confidently that "A mistake was made", suggesting human error.



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Listened to ATC several times now. The jet is not advised about the helicopter and possible conflict. The helicopter requests and accepts responsibility for visual separation from Blue Streak. The plane is banking left to align with 33 as the paths close.
This pilot defines the responsibilities
A tragedy.
 
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ATC's request for a circle to land or diversion from the 01 approach to 33 was due to the number of airplanes lined up to land at Reagan. He was trying to improve separation between the planes, wake turbulence is a real issue when planes follow each other closely.
The previous aircraft refused ATC's "request" to use 33, refusing is a pilot's prerogative.
It was a busy area.
 
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Listened to ATC several times now. The jet is not advised about the helicopter and possible conflict. The helicopter requests and accepts responsibility for visual separation from Blue Streak. The plane is banking left to align with 33 as the paths close.
This pilot defines the responsibilities
A tragedy.
Interesting analysis.

Although a mid-air collision has been "extremely rare" as this pilot said, I heard it reported that there have been 30 near misses at Reagan since the late 80's, 10 have involved military aircraft, 7 of them choppers.

An accident "waiting to happen"?

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The President of the United States has, in fact, just now suggested that the plane crash may have been caused by the impact of DEI programs (Diversity, Equity and Inclusion) in the air traffic controller establishment.

Seriously.




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Any leader with compassion and common sense would console the families with a word of caution on the reason till a full investigation with the black boxes recovered. Politicising it to justify a personal program is not leadership.
 
Any leader with compassion and common sense would console the families with a word of caution on the reason till a full investigation with the black boxes recovered. Politicising it to justify a personal program is not leadership.

Not entering Politics and not sure what he says But is he saying recruitment's have happened based on other aspects than Competence and Ability.
If so he is saying that the wrong persons have been given safety critical Jobs without being able to do it. Slacking ..
Can it be criminal negligence in USA
 
Not entering Politics and not sure what he says But is he saying recruitment's have happened based on other aspects than Competence and Ability.
If so he is saying that the wrong persons have been given safety critical Jobs without being able to do it. Slacking ..
Can it be criminal negligence in USA
You are completely correct
 
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