"A Routine Training Mission"

Not entering Politics and not sure what he says But is he saying recruitment's have happened based on other aspects than Competence and Ability.
If so he is saying that the wrong persons have been given safety critical Jobs without being able to do it. Slacking ..
Can it be criminal negligence in USA
The pilot of the helicopter was Jo Ellis a 15 year veteran, I just listened to his/her son speak and they are a dedicated military family but there are indications that the helicopter had a 200’ ceiling and the collision happened much higher than that, it is looking like human error for sure.
 
Not entering Politics and not sure what he says But is he saying recruitment's have happened based on other aspects than Competence and Ability.
If so he is saying that the wrong persons have been given safety critical Jobs without being able to do it. Slacking ..
Can it be criminal negligence in USA

Unfortunately, the DEI issue has, in fact, become mired in politics here in the US.
Therefore, I think it best that we all grab the wheel and steer away from this topic since political talk runs counter to the rules of discussion (for good reason) here at XS650.com





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Still wondering when the divert from 01 to 33 was made and when the helo was contacted before and after the diversion.
Hot shot helo pilot may have thought the path was clear after the plane passed veering right and up from 200'.
Did the helo know of diversion of the plane towards his flight path? If no, he has an eye on 3130 lined up for final on 01.
 
Winds 320 at 14MPH gusting 25 (surface)
Just now, Mike McCormick, former Air Traffic Controller , said that this particular wind speed could account for the amount of deflection the chopper took from its prescribed route. Two former FAA administrators present did not challenge this opinion.

The FAA has today indefinitely closed two of the chopper routes in question.
More than one member of Congress have been formally calling for such changes in these routes for at least 8 years.



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Congress determines the number of flights allowed at DCA (Reagan). Members of Congress want more direct flights home; last year, the number of flights was increased “despite warnings that increased air traffic around Washington would raise the risk of delays and accidents.” More than 50 slots per day have been added since 2000.

(NewsNation) — "Congress added more daily flights to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport’s schedule last year — and multiple other times over the past quarter century — despite warnings from the FAA and the airport"

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Fly the approach with a pilot's viewpoint.
Note his points on how safety has been CONSTANTLY compromised because congress AUTHORIZED excessive traffic into an airport not designed for it.
The airline pilot NEVER heard any of the helicopter proximity warnings by ATC, they had no heads up that some helicopter is "getting too close" to them.
I only flew little flivvers, mostly to rural airports. But at 400 hours of total flight time I didn't feel like I was a "high time experienced" pilot.
Compare 500 hours to the typical 2000 hours a year many put in at work.
Spit balling: but at 1,000 hours an instructor isn't a seasoned, been there, done that, seen it all, pilot either.
I haven't heard any TIT or amount of time in this challenging DC airspace for these military pilots.
Compare to airline PIC requirements; "In theory, the bare minimum flight time for someone who flies under Part 91 or 135 to become a Part 121 airline captain is 2,500 hours"
Some background on commercial pilot hours required. https://simpleflying.com/us-airline-captain-requirements/

At that time at that approach the airline pilots have a laser like focus on the runway and airplane configuration. . I'd argue with Jim that the co pilot's job on final is to be looking around for conflicting traffic. At that point his job is backing up the pilot's concentration on getting that aircraft into that runway with correct alignment for left right, up down, AND airspeed while completing landing configuration, ready to assist configuring for and flying a missed approach if things aren't what they should be.
I am so Sorry those pilots and that planeload of passengers got screwed by a system that valued perks for poohbahs over safety.
My old saw is; accidents happen when many links in a safety chain are broken. "The system" had busted way too many links before they were sent down that approach.
"Heads need to roll".
 
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Congress determines the number of flights allowed at DCA (Reagan). Members of Congress want more direct flights home; last year, the number of flights was increased “despite warnings that increased air traffic around Washington would raise the risk of delays and accidents.” More than 50 slots per day have been added since 2000.

(NewsNation) — "Congress added more daily flights to Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport’s schedule last year — and multiple other times over the past quarter century — despite warnings from the FAA and the airport"

View attachment 343408
Fly the approach with a pilot's viewpoint.
Note his points on how safety has been CONSTANTLY compromised because congress AUTHORIZED excessive traffic into an airport not designed for it.
The airline pilot NEVER heard any of the helicopter proximity warnings by ATC they had no heads up that some helicopter is "getting too close" to them.
I only flew little flivvers, mostly to rural airports. But at 400 hours of total flight time I didn't feel like I was a "high time experienced" pilot.
Compare 500 hours to the typical 2000 hours a year many put in at work.
Spit balling: but at 1,000 hours an instructor isn't a seasoned, been there, done that, seen it all, pilot either.
I haven't heard any TIT or amount of time in this challenging DC airspace for these military pilots.
Compare to airline PIC requirements; "In theory, the bare minimum flight time for someone who flies under Part 91 or 135 to become a Part 121 airline captain is 2,500 hours"
Some background on commercial pilot hours required. https://simpleflying.com/us-airline-captain-requirements/

At that time at that approach the airline pilots have a laser like focus on the runway and airplane configuration. . I'd argue with Jim that the co pilot's job on final is to be looking around for conflicting traffic. At that point his job is backing up the pilot's concentration on getting that aircraft into that runway with correct alignment for left right, up down, AND airspeed while completing landing configuration, ready to assist configuring for and flying a missed approach if things aren't what they should be.
I am so Sorry those pilots and that planeload of passengers got screwed by a system that valued perks for poohbahs over safety.
My old saw is that accidents require many links in a safety chain breaking. "The system" had busted way to many of links before they were sent down that approach.
"Heads need to roll".
Not that I know anything about this but I believe Jim’s reference was to the helicopter’s co-pilots. Sad this happened whatever the root cause.
 
I believe this incident has already been reviewed at the very highest level, initial conclusions reached and published.
Further to my earlier post, we have always been used in Britain to people in authority adopting a 'no comment' stance after any kind of accident. So if a politician is asked about a plane crash they will generally say something like 'our thoughts and prayers are with those involved BUT we cannot say anything at all about how or why the crash happened until a full enquiry by the accident investigators has been completed.'

I agree with @YamadudeXS650C that this topic could easily become politicised and controversial.
 
Further to my earlier post, we have always been used in Britain to people in authority adopting a 'no comment' stance after any kind of accident. So if a politician is asked about a plane crash they will generally say something like 'our thoughts and prayers are with those involved BUT we cannot say anything at all about how or why the crash happened until a full enquiry by the accident investigators has been completed.'

I agree with @YamadudeXS650C that this topic could easily become politicised and controversial.
The whole post is already political and getting more so, I’m not sure how you discuss air traffic control, rules and regulations, proximity to DC and cause of the crash without talking politics of some sort.
 
At that time at that approach the airline pilots have a laser like focus on the runway and airplane configuration. . I'd argue with Jim that the co pilot's job on final is to be looking around for conflicting traffic. At that point his job is backing up the pilot's concentration on getting that aircraft into that runway with correct alignment for left right, up down, AND airspeed while completing landing configuration, ready to assist configuring for and flying a missed approach if things aren't what they should be.
I agree with that, to an extent. The right seater (FO) is prolly as busy or busier than the Capt getting into the DCA airspace, but once they're configured to land the CP's work load is down to calling airspeed and looking outside. Modern jets have so much more info and and aids than old bastards like Gary and me are used to. RADALT/TCAS/ADSB will call out altitude starting at 500ft... so that's a task the FO has been relieved of. He's already briefed the the missed approach when they ran the decent checklist, it's set into nav system. All he needs to do then is hit the TOGA button and the airplane fly's the missed approach for them. So there's another task he's been relieved of through modern tech and better procedures.... Traffic and airspeed.

"The system" had busted way to many of links before they were sent down that approach.
"Heads need to roll".
100% in agreement. I hadn't even considered the drastic increase in traffic.... and who was responsible for that. Unfortunately, the heads that will roll won't be the ones that caused this mess.
 
Over the airport's objections, Congress last year forced it to add more daily flights, and Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine, a Democrat, warned of the consequences. Speaking in Congress last May, Kaine said there had recently been an incident where two planes nearly collided on a runway and criticized efforts to further increase flights. The National Transportation Safety Board report on that runway incursion has not yet been released.
 
Dont know much about this
But in this day and age ..I would expect a major Airport and Planes and Helicopters have electronics warning about other things flying nearby
Helicopter also has the advantage to make a full stop mid air look around.
As a car driver at the stop sign crossing No hurry ..
As mentioned by gggGary -- the pilot using a judgement He is on board he is the Captain.
If he decides to go around getting a better situation If someone gets angry they can fire him at the ground everyone alive.
I don't see many complain afterwards
I once was in a plane on New Zealand bad weather Pilot could not land at all .After 2 failed attempts people vomiting inside
He flew somewhere else one hour one way if i recall right
Exit the plane wait a few hours then back again Need to adapt to the situation

I like that and it is disappearing here -- Slamming the fist on the table " Not gonna do This "
saved a lot of problems Sure there was conflicts Sometimes got fired but people can cooperate find solutions
 
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