After all these years the bike that I thought was an XS1 is an XS1B... Help ID Please

Snowwag

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Hello,
I was getting ready to sell my XS1 that has been in the garage and unused for a decade... Then I was reading some posts and I started looking at the VIN and Case #s and my head started hurting. It looks like an XS1 and drives like one too. But alas the VIN and Case #s don't fit the year. Can one of you more knowledgeable XS1 ers let me know what the Frame ID is (I think it's and XS1B) and all the color should be gold, not the Candy Apple Green that I have if this is true? The Spedo is in KMH and the back story was a Viet Nam vet brought it back to the states... But you know how stories go...

VIN S650-011841
Case ID 8650 that has a circle stamped over it with an A in the middle of the circle - does anyone know what this means? See Pics

I'm kind of bummed out and the last question is that should I part it out or sell the bike as a whole... I also have 2500 in parts for the future rebuild that I was going to tackle.
 

650Skull

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Frame # is XS1B. Engine no is odd. 8650 looks to much like S650 with the S looking like an 8 and this could have come from the factory like this. In a case of a replacement set of cases they would be stamped S650 with the Vin no is missing. Did hear about engine cases getting replaced and came fro the Factory with no Vin #'s stamped on them. You could stamp your frame no on the engine if you do but do some research on pics and make sure the stamp looks like factory.

Dose the motor have a 3 bolt tappet/rocker cover covering the left side tappet/. It has to be a 3 bolt cover and no starter motor, (motor hole), on the engine case for it to be period correct. These early motors did have a reputation for stretching the little ends on the rods and breaking. This could result in a rod going through the crank case. Hence the replacement case on yours if this ever happened. not trying to scare you it is a possibility on why the engine case doesn't have a vin #

XS1B's did come out in Candy green so it could be colour correct. Tank single green stripe is XS1. XS1B had double stripes
XS1 and 1B side by side, Candy Green and Candy Orange
7391533208_e304f8ec2a_z.jpg

XS1B candy green
9707.jpg2M  Bluebonnets.jpg

Now you mention the bike Has KPH speedo and a Vietnam vet imported the bike into the US. As much information about this and from where will help. What year it was imported as well if you can well.

There are a couple of guys on here who know these early XS's real well. TXXS is one so a PM to him if he doesn't answer on here may help you with more info.

As for the value. Defiantly worth good money. XS1's are the top of the lst but good XS1B's are the next best thing
 

Jan_P

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I am no expert on these bikes
I don't exactly know the USA Market
The Pictures are a bit unclear

But are we talking a Complete Bike original paint and parts. with paperwork and a Back Story ..Perhaps Documentation from Vietnam and Import paper
Vin and the lot.

That will be a bad idea here

I'm kind of bummed out and the last question is that should I part it out or sell the bike as a whole... I also have 2500 in parts for the future rebuild that I was going to tackle.

I am more into the last owner segment .But I have seen and heard of bikes alike this selling around $ 7000 here
Dealer Not knowing exactly what year. or history
So my first guess is that the whole bike sums up 3 -4 -5 times the parts value . And there is the man hours taking it apart

A bit confusion as to the numbers I believe can be sorted out and as a first impression the circle can be some type of accident
( Cant see the A )
Punching in numbers as 8650 on factories they don't punch one digit at a time as I see it I believe that can be factory
But the circle shows that the tool has been held at an angle ..And that would be rare in a Japanese quality minded factory
It is also sitting close to the edge ..over the other digits when there is room below.
If I cant see the A ..I don't think it is factory and Why would anyone else do it ? like a shop never heard of it.
Perhaps if a big costumer Police order or so .Or with a modification.
Nowadays one cant ship vehicles between countries Without Custom and Vehicle registration so there can be a reason for the circle and paperwork ,

I am thinking a mishap ..like dropped the engine at a repair shop onto a socket or so or a collision a pipe ??
( Is there a clear A in the center it changes it )

But no parting out just yet
It can be a collectors / Museum bike personally I always take a look at the odometer ..before the rest
 

Snowwag

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Thanks to both of you for your insight. I posted a close-up of the engine block number - I thought the same thing about a potential S650 general stamp as it looks too much like the name of the bike rather than coincidence however the S does look like an 8 but it is slightly offset. What is still an unknown is the circle with an A in the middle - what is that?

The engine is a kick start, with the 3 stud tappet covers... That is great news that the Candy Apply green was provided with the xs1b bikes. I don't feel as bad as I did and I'm OK with this as this bike is a complete bike, a survivor from the past with a KPH speedo that most in the states do not have. I was just really freaking out when I thought it was a franken bike.

I've had this bike for over 25 years, rode it all over and it always gets attention from bikers that like the old stuff. This is a stock bike except for the coils but I have the old ones. The back story was given to the person that I purchased from that had the bike but did not document the back story. I'll clean it up and take a video, It's cool that I can go out to the bike and kick it over with one or two kicks cold. I learned a long time ago to commit to the kick start process or that bad dog will jump up and bite your leg like a mountain lion.

Glad to be on board....
 
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Jan_P

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Can the circle with the A be a Customs / Government marking ?
Today if someone imports a Motorcycle there needs to be paperwork
And as in this case if it is an box ..from Vietnam.

The Spedo is in KMH and the back story was a Viet Nam vet brought it back to the states...

Before someone gets permission to drive away some kind of inspections has to be made in the USA
Check that it is not stolen in Vietnam ..Lights ...Brakes.and so
In this case if a Police officer stops the bike and Notice the speedometer is in Km/ h ..he would have Questions
Questions that might lead to a ride in the backseat of the Police car. Getting it sorted.

Maybe a marking needed to export out of Vietnam in War time ..
Most likely there was items prohibited to take out of Viet nam at that time ..Needing clearance.
Obviously .Weapons / Gasoline / Fire extinguishers / Hospital Equipment and so on
Motorcycles and Vehicles could be the same.
cant take a Jeep out of a war zone --- it is needed there and Not following the rules for such items is a Big No No
Very big No No

 

650Skull

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The numbers being offset is how they should be. they were all done by hand so they weren't going to spend time marking out lines to stamp the no onto. Gary posted up a lot of engines #'s one time and they are all like that. If they aren't it indicates someone has done some alterations, and we have seen that on here.

Circle and A, who knows. Maybe Yamaha stamped them as replacements and used different letters so they wouldn't get confused with the XS2's.
Don't forget the next model is being designed and made a year or two in advance before introduction.

Did a search and Vietnam converted to metric in 1963 so the speedo would be period correct being sold in Vietnam as new with KPH
 

txxs

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Looks nice.
It is hard to say for sure based on the one photo and limited information but it appears to have started life as a green XS1F (but also has a mixture of parts).
The frame number could be either XS1B or XS1F however the indicators, green covers etc. and tail light say it must be an XS1F.
Probably from Asia (or Japan) with the kmh speedo. The Australian XS1F had mph speedo.
The tank is 1970 XS1. Maybe there was an accident and the tank was replaced as such. Many possibilities.
Trying to zoom in, it appears that the tank petcocks are 1974 or later.
The crankcase could have been damaged and as skull says above it looks like the case is a replacement case.
Those gators on the forks are not consistent with the XS1F (or XS1B). It is possible that the whole front end is 1970 XS1 or it could be the 1971 XS1F with someone adding the gators.
Need more info or photos, but I would say it most likely started as a XS1F and the engine blew up and the crankcase was replaced as well as the tank.
(Alternatively, but less likely, it could have started as a XS1 and had a major accident event where both the frame and crankcase were replaced.)
My 20 cents worth.
 

Snowwag

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Alright, you XS sleuths, more mysteries, and some story credibility. I'm glad this site has prompted a deeper dive into this bike. Again thanks to all of you for your help, insights, and hunches.

Check this out
It's a California Identification Tag from way back when. It has the frame ID on it... So I'm drawing a conclusion that this bike was indeed imported because Califonia only does this (as far as I know and I have personally done this with an actual Vietnam Wat military M-416 trailer) when a vehicle or in this case a motorcycle has no identifiable paperwork and or identification markings.

For those hawk eyes, look at the circle stamped under the Cal ID tag... Do you see it?

So things are coming together for a back story....

Granted I may not be as nuanced as many of the members. Again I'll be taking the Green Machine out of the garage and taking pics and dig out old pics from years past. Also, check my media as I'll be posting other collectible items that for me are always a cool look back...


Take it easy and have a great holiday

View media item 29198
 
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txxs

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Hi Snowwag,
I found a Yamaha brochure for the XS1F. This model came in candy green as well as candy orange (whereas the American XS1B version was candy orange).
I have owned both colours. There are several other subtle differences as well eg. indicators, tail light etc.
You can see the green version with the double stripe tank in the top half of the photo.
I believe that green version of the XS1F is what your bike originally was except that someone has replaced the tank with an XS1 tank (single stripe).
There are also subtle differences in the upper fork cover between a green XS1 and a green XS1F. If you take some close-up photos it would help.
XS1F.jpeg
 

gggGary

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Look under the gators. Are the fork springs inside or out the fork tubes?
The more I look at that 8 on the engine numbers the more I see just an S, shrug. Sending a rod through early cases wasn't all that rare, Yamaha prolly had sets of "unstamped" early cases in the parts inventory.

the 01**** SN designates 71 XS-1F right?
model ID.jpg

Hey @650Skull "official keeper of the XS650 data;
There's kinda a glitch with the XS1-B and XS1-F serial numbers in that chart? The 1-F #s are inside the range of the 1B #s, Guess that could be, with a chunk in the middle reserved for the 1-F production, hmmm.
 
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Snowwag

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Snowwag

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Ohhh and the petcocks are not original - I looked under the tank and there seems to be a larger outline where the original petcocks would have attached. The ones on the tank now have a smaller footprint. That must have been me, I think...
 

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Jan_P

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I think it has been rebuilt given the Odometer
It would be hard get that far with an early model
A question is when did it happen
And repainted given the external fine look at 70000 km there would be scratches dents and wear.
Could be interesting hear what parts you have a $ 2500
No evident need for a rebuild as it stands unless the engine has problems.
 

Snowwag

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This bike has its blemishes, and I've had it for most of its life and I have not rebuilt the motor but have fixed things when needed. I have put on 50KM myself. These bikes are known for their durability. I'll need to see stats on various types of failures before drawing conclusions. As far as I can tell the side covers, tank, bucket, ears, and shocks have not been repainted. There are little chips, some pitting on the forks, and more but considering the bike is fun to ride and shows well. This bike has been garaged for decades. Thanks to site members that offered up tangible information I have a lot of confidence in what this bike is. The biggest mystery is the engine stamp. No one knows, it looks like 8650 however is may have been an S650 stamp, the photo, to me looks like 8650... I need to see other engine stamps to compare. Im going to clean out the stamp again and take more pics. Thanks, everyone. I have a parts list of my NOS stuff plus other items that have come off the bike over the years... Couldn't find those petcocks.. Anyone got an old set? Take it easy
 

Jan_P

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That changes it if there are some scratches and so not visible on pictures and you had it so long time
My first 80 gave up in a crank bearing and Cam shaft bearing . Compression not perfect
at ca 70000
But it had a tough start crashed .. with more service and warm up perhaps they last longer
But rebuild early would perhaps explain the engine casing No
 
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