Another charging question (sorry) :)

[Tony g]

My points model is not charging. It has a solid state 2 plug reg/rectifier already fitted (no name). First question is Can I check the AC output to make sure it alternator is outputting?
I have checked feed to the one brush and the other is grounded. The wiring was modded previously and the smaller plug 2 wire with green and brown had been left undone and the loom wires joined together which makes me think it was never regulating the voltage. I may be miles away but Im trying to determine whats going on before I can final wrap the loom up.
Cheers

Tony

 

[Tony g]

Ok Ive read Garys great thread on charging checks and did some checks.
With bike running and alternator plug plugged in, set fluke on AC and I'm getting 5v AC. Clearly too low. The slap test works with ign on so any clues to why its charing so low? The rotor reads 5 Ohms between tracks and not shorts to case/ground. 3 white wires coming from stator shows good continuity between each other and no shorts to case.

 

[Its been a long time]

What year bike please? Pre and post 1980 are a bit different.

Stator windings check -

 

[Tony g]

Bike is 75 but wiring and other parts 77 ish. Ive done those tests in your reply and they check out.
Cheers.

 

[Its been a long time]

Asuming the brushes are good - Sounds like suspect regulator then to me. The live carbon brush isn't getting full 12v when the bike is running, so the alternator out put is low? What's the voltage regulator? If it's stock there's a procedure for testing and setting the points gaps in the regulator. They can be adjusted.

On my 77 650D I swapped my original out for an automotive regulator and fitted a standard 3 phase bridge rectifier with it. Charges great.

 

[Tony g]

Asuming the brushes are good - Sounds like suspect regulator then to me. The live carbon brush isn't getting full 12v when the bike is running, so the alternator out put is low? What's the voltage regulator? If it's stock there's a procedure for testing and setting the points gaps in the regulator. They can be adjusted.

On my 77 650D I swapped my original out for an automotive regulator and fitted a standard 3 phase bridge rectifier with it. Charges great.

Brushes look very good. Ive not checked 12v at the brush while running ill do that tomorrow. The reg is modern combined unit. The 2nd plug on the reg/rect (green and brown) was never connected and the loom side of that plug was bridged with a wire. Ive assumed at this point it was never charging correct and by bridging the green and brown it would have been unregulated and getting all it could. I rode this bike 40 miles before I stripped it so maybe it was on its battery reserve charge? Im happy to put another decent reg/rect on there but dont want it to fail if I have another issue and lose the £80 they seem to cost

 

[Its been a long time]

Brushes look very good. Ive not checked 12v at the brush while running ill do that tomorrow. The reg is modern combined unit. The 2nd plug on the reg/rect (green and brown) was never connected and the loom side of that plug was bridged with a wire. Ive assumed at this point it was never charging correct and by bridging the green and brown it would have been unregulated and getting all it could. I rode this bike 40 miles before I stripped it so maybe it was on its battery reserve charge? Im happy to put another decent reg/rect on there but dont want it to fail if I have another issue and lose the £80 they seem to cost

Throw it away and use a separate three phase bridge rectifier off eBay and an automotive alternator regulator. There's an excellent guide in the technical section. I converted my 650D for less than £25 including making new sub harnesses for the rectifier and the regulator. Charges great. I consider it well worth the effort. I just followed the guide here in the forum, made new sub harnesses to suit and plugged it all together. I can't recommend the regulator I used since it seems impossible to find another one (Lucas UCB502). Ebay is full of suitable regulators though.

Edited to add - first thing is double check the wiring is standard and good condition as it sounds like it's been mutilated by a previous owner.

Link -

Post in thread 'UK source voltage regulator.' https://www.xs650.com/threads/uk-source-voltage-regulator.65543/post-832950

 

[Tony g]

Throw it away and use a separate three phase bridge rectifier off eBay and an automotive alternator regulator. There's an excellent guide in the technical section. I converted my 650D for less than £25 including making new sub harnesses for the rectifier and the regulator. Charges great. I consider it well worth the effort. I just followed the guide here in the forum, made new sub harnesses to suit and plugged it all together. I can't recommend the regulator I used since it seems impossible to find another one (Lucas UCB502). Ebay is full of suitable regulators though.

Edited to add - first thing is double check the wiring is standard and good condition as it sounds like it's been mutilated by a previous owner.

Link -

Post in thread 'UK source voltage regulator.' https://www.xs650.com/threads/uk-source-voltage-regulator.65543/post-832950

Theres nothing standard with this loom. Later clocks and loom etc It seems in good nick Ive bared all the loom on the bench and removed unused wires and light checker etc. Only major mod was the joining of the brown and green that would have gone on the reg/rect.
At the mo Im more interested in getting a decent 10-12v AC out of the alternator so I know that everything after that can be a decent reg/rect either combined or seperate as youve done.
If I supply 12-13v to the brush should I see the AC in that region if all is good with rotor and stator?

 

[Its been a long time]

Theres nothing standard with this loom. Later clocks and loom etc It seems in good nick Ive bared all the loom on the bench and removed unused wires and light checker etc. Only major mod was the joining of the brown and green that would have gone on the reg/rect.
At the mo Im more interested in getting a decent 10-12v AC out of the alternator so I know that everything after that can be a decent reg/rect either combined or seperate as youve done.
If I supply 12-13v to the brush should I see the AC in that region if all is good with rotor and stator?

Yes but all bets are off because I don't know the condition of your wiring.

You will have full alernator output, unregulated if you put 12v onto the rotor. OK for a troubleshooting test. What will happen when you do that I wouldn't care to say given your wiring.

On a stock XS650 brown is always switched 12v. Green is rotor excitation voltage. Black is always ground.

The three white wires are 3 phase AC and go to the rectifier input. From the rectifier output the red charges the battery, the black is ground.

That's why I suggested the first thing you do is put it back to how it should be.

Edited to add - given the previous owner seems to have put 12v unregulated onto the rotor to run, and jumpered the reg/rec I strongly suspect the previous owner knew he'd blown the reg/rec and put 12v directly onto the rotor to sell the bike. Just my guess.

 

[Tony g]

Yes but all bets are off because I don't know the condition of your wiring.

You will have full alernator output, unregulated if you put 12v onto the rotor. OK for a troubleshooting test. What will happen when you do that I wouldn't care to say given your wiring.

On a stock XS650 brown is always switched 12v. Green is rotor excitation voltage. Black is always ground.

The three white wires are 3 phase AC and go to the rectifier input. From the rectifier output the red charges the battery, the black is ground.

That's why I suggested the first thing you do is put it back to how it should be.

Edited to add - given the previous owner seems to have put 12v unregulated onto the rotor to run, and jumpered the reg/rec I strongly suspect the previous owner knew he'd blown the reg/rec and put 12v directly onto the rotor to sell the bike. Just my guess.

Your last bit makes sense and is what I thinking too. (I bought from a dealer but all previous was carried out by someone "in the know" who then sold to the dealer. If I ever buy another Ill take a multimeter with me ! . Thanks for your input

 

[Jan_P]

If I get this right you have a connector at the Reg /Rec Not connected ..
Green /Brown / Black possibly

The regulator inside them are easy to fry connecting them backwards so Mr IBALT
probably is right that it is toast

But they are pricey ..somewhere there is wires coming out from the brushes and alternator
Positive thinking a bit measuring and perhaps connect ..see what happens
Pictures perhaps

 

[Tony g]

If I get this right you have a connector at the Reg /Rec Not connected ..
Green /Brown / Black possibly

The regulator inside them are easy to fry connecting them backwards so Mr IBALT
probably is right that it is toast

But they are pricey ..somewhere there is wires coming out from the brushes and alternator
Positive thinking a bit measuring and perhaps connect ..see what happens
Pictures perhaps

Correct the small connector with green and brown were never connected.
Im searching for alternative regs / rectifiers to decide what I need now .

 

[Its been a long time]

Correct the small connector with green and brown were never connected.
Im searching for alternative regs / rectifiers to decide what I need now .

Starter for ten from eBay UK. Do your own due diligence -

https://ebay.us/m/jVfGWZ

https://ebay.us/m/1eEiHp

 

[650Skull]

Read post #2 for a points bike.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

The reg used in the US isn't available in the UK I don't think, and postage+your tax would make it expensive

Here in Aus we can use and get a Bosh RE55.

Not dirt cheap here either but the automotive reg and bridge rectifier are a reliable upgrade. Aftermarket SS reg/rect are hit and miss with a lot of them overcharging from new

 

[Its been a long time]

Read post #2 for a points bike.

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

The reg used in the US isn't available in the UK I don't think, and postage+your tax would make it expensive

Here in Aus we can use and get a Bosh RE55.
View attachment 352704
Not dirt cheap here either but the automotive reg and bridge rectifier are a reliable upgrade. Aftermarket SS reg/rect are hit and miss with a lot of them overcharging from new

Funnily enough, there's a VR115 as recommended on here at the moment on eBay UK. They're not commonly available in the UK. But it's two or three times the price of the one I posted a link to above.

The VR115 -

https://ebay.us/m/X4WTh2

 

[Its been a long time]

And there's a Bosch RE55 on eBay UK at the moment. Fair price.

 

[Tony g]

Thanks for all the links guys I'll have a think on whether to go for a combined reg/rec for now. It would be nice (for me) to have a plug and play unit work just to prove my sanity lol

 

[Its been a long time]

Thanks for all the links guys I'll have a think on whether to go for a combined reg/rec for now. It would be nice (for me) to have a plug and play unit work just to prove my sanity lol

Track record here suggests the separate rectifier and regulator units are the way to go. More reliable and cheaper.

But it's your bike. Good luck with it whatever you decide to do.

 

[650Skull]

Thanks for all the links guys I'll have a think on whether to go for a combined reg/rec for now. It would be nice (for me) to have a plug and play unit work just to prove my sanity lol

Your choice. Be aware you have been warned.

Search on Reg/rect and regulated and rectifier.

https://www.xs650.com/search/1463771/?page=2&q=Reg/rect&o=relevance

https://www.xs650.com/search/1463780/?q=Regulator+and+rectifier&o=relevance
These are posts so go to the front of the thread. A few on failures.

 

[Tony g]

Your choice. Be aware you have been warned.

Search on Reg/rect and regulated and rectifier.

https://www.xs650.com/search/1463771/?page=2&q=Reg/rect&o=relevance

https://www.xs650.com/search/1463780/?q=Regulator+and+rectifier&o=relevance
These are posts so go to the front of the thread. A few on failures.

I do have this modern reg/rect from a gsxr. Would I be able to use this ? Im not sure how to wire it yet and Im guessing itll be a PMA set up on the donor bike. This is a link to one for sale - mine is from a known good source (bike was a benchmark bike so still a good running unit)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/26633255...1WfS2gNuA+2+Ak1RlZpfClw+1l|tkp:Bk9SR-rIwqv1ZQ