Yes, the notch index mark on the left side should be at the 12:00 position. On the right side of the camshaft gear, there should be a punch mark, which should aline exactly even with the top surface of the head.
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Backwards Camshaft found and fixed
- Thread starter Rlauchard
- Start date
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- Tags
- camshaft electrical engine ignition
Yes, the notch index mark on the left side should be at the 12:00 position. On the right side of the camshaft gear, there should be a punch mark, which should aline exactly even with the top surface of the head.
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
Rlachard,
If you do install the PAMCO, it's important that the points and advance housing gaskets be as thin as the original OEM gaskets or the housings will protrude and interfere with both the advance mechanism and the PAMCO.
If you do install the PAMCO, it's important that the points and advance housing gaskets be as thin as the original OEM gaskets or the housings will protrude and interfere with both the advance mechanism and the PAMCO.
On the cam the bearings should be pushed as far onto the cam as they will go. Then you center the bearings on the head where they set. They will over hang on the inside a bit, this is ok.
To get them centered I use the depth gauge part of my dial caliper to measure from the outer edge of the bearing race to the outer edge of the bearing seats, where the to housings mount.
This centers the cam sprocket straight above the sprocket on the crankshaft. You need them aligned so the cam chain runs straight from one sprocket to the other.
Leo
To get them centered I use the depth gauge part of my dial caliper to measure from the outer edge of the bearing race to the outer edge of the bearing seats, where the to housings mount.
This centers the cam sprocket straight above the sprocket on the crankshaft. You need them aligned so the cam chain runs straight from one sprocket to the other.
Leo
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
Retiredgentleman,
I read about the punch mark in the Clymer manual (didn't see it in the Haynes). I guess, I'm questioning my ability to interpret this
. For something seemingly so important as timing, I don't really get how I can tell a punch mark is parallel to the head without another point of reference. I 'eyeballed' it and it seems parallel, but what do I know. So...I attached a picture (IMG0460) in which a red arrow is pointing out my punch mark. What do you think?
I measured per weekendriders suggestions and those seem good to me as well.
Pamcopete....thanks for the tip. I ordered the advvance/breaker gaskets from Mike's as well as the camshaft seals as I had some oil in my housing. Are these gaskets known to be too thick and will cause the issue that you described? If so, how do I get around it/deal with that?
I read about the punch mark in the Clymer manual (didn't see it in the Haynes). I guess, I'm questioning my ability to interpret this
. For something seemingly so important as timing, I don't really get how I can tell a punch mark is parallel to the head without another point of reference. I 'eyeballed' it and it seems parallel, but what do I know. So...I attached a picture (IMG0460) in which a red arrow is pointing out my punch mark. What do you think?I measured per weekendriders suggestions and those seem good to me as well.
Pamcopete....thanks for the tip. I ordered the advvance/breaker gaskets from Mike's as well as the camshaft seals as I had some oil in my housing. Are these gaskets known to be too thick and will cause the issue that you described? If so, how do I get around it/deal with that?
Attachments
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
XSLeo,
Thanks as well...I measured up everything and am getting expected results. I am waiting for the cam chain guide and the gaskets and the seals...then, I will get this thing back together for a test fire before FINALLY getting to the PAMCO.
Still looking for any thoughts on IF a backwards camshaft on a no points bike would make a difference. The lobes all look the same to me, I'm not good at measuring oblong items, but the basic measurements show all the lobes looking similar.
Thanks as well...I measured up everything and am getting expected results. I am waiting for the cam chain guide and the gaskets and the seals...then, I will get this thing back together for a test fire before FINALLY getting to the PAMCO.
Still looking for any thoughts on IF a backwards camshaft on a no points bike would make a difference. The lobes all look the same to me, I'm not good at measuring oblong items, but the basic measurements show all the lobes looking similar.
The cam can be either way with a TCI bike. The cam lobes are the same jst 180 degrees apart. Is it possible that they cam from the factory that way, I think so. Mistakes get made and QA doesn't find them all.
The engine will run just fine either way.
Some people think the lobes are different, to those I say hold a cam up so you are looking at the end with the threads. The lobes both point the same way, look at the shape of the lobes. Now gturn the cam so the threaded end is away from you, now turn the cam so the lobes point the same way as the first time you looked at it. Notice the shape of the lobes. They are the same. just 180 degrees apart.
To line up the dot/ punch mark, just looking satraight from the side and lining up the sealing surface will be good enough, if you are still not sure then use a straight edge, lay it on the sealing surface and slide the end over against the sprocket.
The dot should be at the edge of the straight edge.
Leo
The engine will run just fine either way.
Some people think the lobes are different, to those I say hold a cam up so you are looking at the end with the threads. The lobes both point the same way, look at the shape of the lobes. Now gturn the cam so the threaded end is away from you, now turn the cam so the lobes point the same way as the first time you looked at it. Notice the shape of the lobes. They are the same. just 180 degrees apart.
To line up the dot/ punch mark, just looking satraight from the side and lining up the sealing surface will be good enough, if you are still not sure then use a straight edge, lay it on the sealing surface and slide the end over against the sprocket.
The dot should be at the edge of the straight edge.
Leo
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
The best thing to do is use your caliper or micrometer to measure the thickness of the stock gaskets that you removed and compare to the ones from MIkesXS.
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
Hmmm....I may be looking for a caliper and/or micrometer the next time I'm at Harbor Freight...and a how to book on use of said tools
.I just spent the last hour and a half cleaning the gasket off...gasoline, scraper, light grit sandpaper....all ready for new gaskets and seals.
XSLeo...great post! Hope that helps others...CHECK YOUR CAMSHAFT PRIOR TO PAMCO INSTALL SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING INTO....THEN GET INTO IT ANYWAY!!!
Next post....putting in the replacement cam chain guide, seals, gaskets...reinstall the engine...check the valves...check the timing and see how she runs....then....PAMCO!
deadchef
xsbobblehead
interesting that the cam could have came from the factory that way. is there any reason the pamco couldn't have been essentially installed backwards?
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
deadchef....so, on the thread I called out on page one, pamcopete stated the following:
"The problem is that the advancer would retard the spark instead of advancing it...
and....the dwell angle would be 120 degres instead of 60 degrees......"
Now...I don't know what in the world that means, but it sounded to me like I shouldn't move forward with the backward install.
deadchef
xsbobblehead
ah, i should pay closer attention before opening my mouth. bummer situation you have there. take your time and take lots of pictures and you'll be riding in no time.
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
Rlauchard,
Next time you have to remove a gasket, use Permatex Gasket remover.
Next time you have to remove a gasket, use Permatex Gasket remover.
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
OK...so last time I was able to get to the engine, I posted this:
"Next post....putting in the replacement cam chain guide, seals, gaskets...reinstall the engine...check the valves...check the timing and see how she runs....then....PAMCO!"
Well...this is (by this, I mean me) getting out of control. In respect of folks coming here for my experience with PAMCO...I will update this when I get back to that part.
In the meantime, I am going to create another thread called: Newbies and Top End as I've decided to go a bit farther in the work with the rocker box off.
"Next post....putting in the replacement cam chain guide, seals, gaskets...reinstall the engine...check the valves...check the timing and see how she runs....then....PAMCO!"
Well...this is (by this, I mean me) getting out of control. In respect of folks coming here for my experience with PAMCO...I will update this when I get back to that part.
In the meantime, I am going to create another thread called: Newbies and Top End as I've decided to go a bit farther in the work with the rocker box off.
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
UPDATE: Found out this morning that the PO did indeed have the engine apart in order to bore the cylinders. This means that I was wrong in my belief that the engine was not apart...and I also now believe that the camshaft was put in backwards when the bike was put back together, and not this way from the factory.
At least I've solved that little conundrum...high and dry until my new parts come in.
At least I've solved that little conundrum...high and dry until my new parts come in.
pregrid
XS650 Guru
that mkes things a little clearer, eh?
Rlauchard
XS650 Addict
So....just an update on things:
Spoke to Robert at Omar's....great guy...and he in turn spoke to Hugh at Hugh's Hand Built regarding the backwards camshaft. Hugh says that the lobes are not perfectly symetrical so a reverse install of the camshaft will let the bike run, but not run well. I've ridden about 600 miles this way, and who knows how many were put on prior.
I've cleaned the motor, painted the top end and sanded the fins down. I'm gathering up replacement sealer washers and gaskets to start putting her back together in the next few weeks. Can't wait to a) see if the bike runs better and b) test the PAMCO out which is where this all began!
Spoke to Robert at Omar's....great guy...and he in turn spoke to Hugh at Hugh's Hand Built regarding the backwards camshaft. Hugh says that the lobes are not perfectly symetrical so a reverse install of the camshaft will let the bike run, but not run well. I've ridden about 600 miles this way, and who knows how many were put on prior.
I've cleaned the motor, painted the top end and sanded the fins down. I'm gathering up replacement sealer washers and gaskets to start putting her back together in the next few weeks. Can't wait to a) see if the bike runs better and b) test the PAMCO out which is where this all began!
pregrid
XS650 Guru
650Greaser
XS650 Enthusiast
hello . i also have a case of the "Backwards cam blues"... no biggie. just pop the rocker cover off and flip that puppy around. right!? while I am in there i figure i might as well check the valves . will i need Valve guide Install / remove driver tool ? is there any gaskets , bushings , washers that are mandatory to replace ? what else is worth looking into while i have the engine out with it's lid off? i am going to take a valve lapping tool . thinking i need a valve spring clamp . . or is there a trip of the trade to get around that. if not, any one know where i can buy a Valve Spring Compressor Tool for under $50. or maybe a tool lending service. of coarse it would have to be in vancouver. any help/advice regarding the above babblings would be greatly appreciated .
can't wait to hear my xs roar!
can't wait to hear my xs roar!
pamcopete
Ride.Enjoy.Life is Simple
Well, of course, there have been a few people who have mistakenly thought that their cam was in backwards because they were not familiar with the convention as to which side is left and right.
Last edited:
650Greaser
XS650 Enthusiast
from what i read the pamco ignish won't be advancing, it will be retarding if installed on the riders left. bigger threaded end of the cam sticks out the left side. am i correct in my thinking?
cheers
cheers
