Boeing's 737Max has been released for pax service after the longest grounding in US history.
Is it safe now?
Would you fly on it?
Why?
Is it safe now?
Would you fly on it?
Why?
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Boeing 737 MAX
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
Yeah, I tend to agree. After years of working on Boeing's, I trust 'em. I'm still baffled as to why they never put some redundancy into the MCAS in the first place...
I wouldn’t be afraid to fly one, I’m quite sure they understand that another failure could mean curtains for Boeing.
The problem I have with this is that The impression is that the Company and Authorities has " Stretched the Truth "
So why would I Trust them now ?? .. For their integrity and new found Honesty.
When everyone knows that a scrapping would be a financial meltdown.
I Know that development can lead to things that needs to be adjusted and redesigned.
Nothing strange or abnormal.
But I have not seen anyone on a press conference admitting a mistake
I have not seen any press conference explaining anything . MCAS ????
That is the problem with lying after that is a different situation it is a job to be done A job that they are not willing to do.
Not gonna sit in that plane for many years :And I don't like their attitude towards the passengers
For me this is contradicting to USA norms + The American way and how it is done in other successful Organizations there
Make a bad job and the Boss fires you ..Make a god job and you make Money
This is more like Former Communist countries. It is sending the wrong signals
I'd fly on one run by an airline that requires proper training for it's pilots.
It'd make me think a bit but yeah, I'd be more worried about getting the cooties from other passengers than a crash.
It'd make me think a bit but yeah, I'd be more worried about getting the cooties from other passengers than a crash.
Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System. It's a fancy name for a control law that prevents stalls. Boeing was adamant in claiming it wasn't a stall prevention system. Their reason for that was it would create more regulatory hoops to jump through. We can boil the whole thing down to Boeing sold the airplane claiming no additional training for pilots current in older 737's. That was a strong selling point to the airlines. Adding the MCAS was necessary because flight testing showed some undesirable pitch characteristics... not dangerous, just undesirable. Calling it an additional system would have required additional pilot training. That would have killed their sales pitch of no additional crew training so they just called it a control law enhancement that was run in the background and required no additional training. The fatal flaw was the lack of redundancy... it only had 1 sensor to monitor AOA (pitch angle relative to airflow). If that (falsely) detected too high an AOA, it pushed the nose down. Since crews were never trained on it, hell, they didn't even know it existed, they didn't know how to override it.
All that's a long way of saying yeah, there's plenty of blame to go around. For what it's worth, I personally don't think any of these errors were malicious or intentionally misleading. I think they were trying to work within the framework they were given. Little comfort to those who lost loved one I know, but there you are. The redundancy issue was fixed by using 2 AOA sensors and a disagreement light. The operational problem was solved by (finally) giving the crews additional training on what actually is a new, additional system. That one step alone could have prevented the accidents in the first place. I guess you could really just boil it down to Marketing taking precedent over Operations.
All fault and blame aside, I think it's fixed and safe... except of course the cooties issue Gary mentioned. 'Till everyone's vaccinated, no way I'ma gettin' on a plane unless I'm the only one.
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I was reading the pilots couldn't override the system before where as now the pilots can.
Actually Doug, they could override it before and could have prevented both crashes.... but you can't override a system you don't even know is there. And that's the mind blowing part of all of this. All else being equal, a few hours of simulator training and we wouldn't be talking about it.... the crashes never would have happened.
Sorry, i read this as the pilots could not over ride MCAS system. The system overrode the pilots controls, or is this article wrong......
https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...-max-planes-to-fly-again-20201119-p56fwz.html
The new software now requires inputs from two sensors in order to activate the software. Boeing says the software also does not override the pilot's controls like it did in the past.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...-max-planes-to-fly-again-20201119-p56fwz.html
The new software now requires inputs from two sensors in order to activate the software. Boeing says the software also does not override the pilot's controls like it did in the past.
Overriding it would have involved simply deactivating the electric trim motor on the
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Yep. Love it or hate it.. capitalism in action. Someone has to mind the bottom line. The problem comes in when theirs is the loudest voice.
As an AMT, my attitude has been "If it's not Boeing, I'm not going." That has been shaken. No I'm not excited about getting on one. I have over 30 years of experience working at airlines. I'm working at another one now. I got out before the Max, but I have plenty of experience on 737-200 to 737NG. It's just a thing I feel, whether or not it's justified. I just gave you some background, but combined with an emotional component, here it is. I'm not going to refuse to board if that's what comes to the gate, but I would just as soon avoid that. Boeing has put themselves in a very bad place. The Airbus A320 is going to be the preferred aircraft going forward. At Boeing, I bet they wish the 757 factory wasn't turned into a shopping mall!
When I was working full time some months I would fly a dozen times or more. Everything from turboprops to long hauls.
I've never worried about the plane. My theory is the pilot would not fly the plane if it was not safe. He has more to loose than me. He has a better pension.
Actually I did not like riding on a Airbus. CRS kicking in now, but I remember a problem with the controls on Airbus's that caused a dolphin problem. Several crashed.
I've never worried about the plane. My theory is the pilot would not fly the plane if it was not safe. He has more to loose than me. He has a better pension.
Actually I did not like riding on a Airbus. CRS kicking in now, but I remember a problem with the controls on Airbus's that caused a dolphin problem. Several crashed.
Frankly, I hate flying. Not for fear of it, I just hate the whole experience, the airports, the crowds, shuttle buses, security checks, luggage carousels and worst of all, being crammed in like sardines in those too tiny seats with the back of the seat in front of you right in your face and the interminable waits on the tarmac to take off, the last flight I took, we waited longer to take off than the flight lasted! I honestly cannot imagine ever getting on another plane. I’d rather spend three days driving to get somewhere. 
I think I’m turning into a curmudgeon.
I think I’m turning into a curmudgeon.
If you fly first class it's a lot more enjoyable.Frankly, I hate flying. Not for fear of it, I just hate the whole experience, the airports, the crowds, shuttle buses, security checks, luggage carousels and worst of all, being crammed in like sardines in those too tiny seats with the back of the seat in front of you right in your face and the interminable waits on the tarmac to take off, the last flight I took, we waited longer to take off than the flight lasted! I honestly cannot imagine ever getting on another plane. I’d rather spend three days driving to get somewhere.
I think I’m turning into a curmudgeon.
View attachment 180072
Yes getting on the plane sucks.
Nothing tastes better than a Bloody Mary in United first class when going home after two or three weeks on the road.
Boeing can go straight to hell.
After the C-Series shenanigans, the 800% tariff, after taking billions in handouts while demanding the US taxpayers have no say in the operations of the company, they can go piss up a rope. They will never go bankrupt because they have too many weapons systems needed to blow up goatherders and wedding parties in the 3rd world. 300+ people are dead because they tried to wring out every last cent of profit out of a 50 year old fuselage. Eff em.
After the C-Series shenanigans, the 800% tariff, after taking billions in handouts while demanding the US taxpayers have no say in the operations of the company, they can go piss up a rope. They will never go bankrupt because they have too many weapons systems needed to blow up goatherders and wedding parties in the 3rd world. 300+ people are dead because they tried to wring out every last cent of profit out of a 50 year old fuselage. Eff em.
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