Boyer Bransden Ignition installation on my XS2

Ok, forgive the crude drawing, I’m no good at creating things on the computer. So what I did was , connect to the red/ white wire that comes from ignition switch / kill switch and run that wire back to my relay. I used this just as a trigger to activate the relay switch. Then I ran a wire from the switched power side of the relay , back forward to the front of the bike and then split it. I ran one wire to the positive side of the coil and one wire to the red wire from the Boyer box.
158BB0C4-3ACB-4BC7-8239-0C2FB1D9C6FC.jpeg

The old wires that went to your points and condenser can just be taped up and pulled out of the way.
You know normally I take photos of every detail when I do something. This is the one time I didn’t. :laugh2:
Let me know if I can be if any further assistance.
 
Here’s a photo I did have, I added a blue arrow that points to the connector where I picked up switched power from the red/ white wire. The yellow arrow shows where the wire comes back from the relay and where the wire was split. It might be a little confusing that I used a black wire to go to the coil, I ran out of red wire and I wanted to get done. :whistle:
0FDDAE08-6058-456F-A7F2-4AF7F8843C79.jpeg
 
Guys. Same subject but different bike. Same premise. Parallel twin 1972 Triumph 650. Boyer ignition. Wired positive ground. Way it came to me. One day it just quit getting spark. I rewired the whole bike and inspected wires as I removed them. Did this just because it was old and wasn’t sure about the connections. The other guy had a lot of splices in the harness. Continuity checked ok but I still wanted to be sure. Key on and I touch black/yellow to black/white I get spark. This is disconnected from the stator plate. I hook the stator plate back up, turn key on, kick and no spark. So I tested the magnets on the rotor. They test fine. Remembered I had an new old stock Triumph/BSA Boyer. Installed this for shits and giggles. Still the same. Everything is new and no spark by kicking. New plugs, plug wires, wiring harness, Boyer system. What the hell? It’s gotta be in the stator and rotor. Magnets not close enough to the coil poles? Right? Sorry of this is a already answered question that I didn’t run across. To be blunt, a lot of d$&kheads on Triumph Rat forum. Edit: I think it’s 35 degrees bTDC and I have a tool for this. Timing should be good. Thanks on advance for your patience
 
JRay77 said:
Guys. Same subject but different bike. Same premise. Parallel twin 1972 Triumph 650. Boyer ignition. Wired positive ground. Way it came to me. One day it just quit getting spark. I rewired the whole bike and inspected wires as I removed them. Did this just because it was old and wasn’t sure about the connections. The other guy had a lot of splices in the harness. Continuity checked ok but I still wanted to be sure. Key on and I touch black/yellow to black/white I get spark. This is disconnected from the stator plate. I hook the stator plate back up, turn key on, kick and no spark. So I tested the magnets on the rotor. They test fine. Remembered I had an new old stock Triumph/BSA Boyer. Installed this for shits and giggles. Still the same. Everything is new and no spark by kicking. New plugs, plug wires, wiring harness, Boyer system. What the hell? It’s gotta be in the stator and rotor. Magnets not close enough to the coil poles? Right? Sorry of this is a already answered question that I didn’t run across. To be blunt, a lot of d$&kheads on Triumph Rat forum. Edit: I think it’s 35 degrees bTDC and I have a tool for this. Timing should be good. Thanks on advance for your patience
Click to expand...

I have not checked the difference XS --Tri
Is that no spark with plugs outside or inside cylinder ?? .. If spark outside plugs grounded against Cylinder head
( be careful. )
Please check so the 2 wires to the pickup is not switched
 
Outside the cylinder with alligator clips jumped from plug to head for solid ground. The system works when I bypass the stair and rotor. It just doesn’t spark through the stator and rotor.
 
Outside the cylinder with alligator clips jumped from plug to head for solid ground. The system works when I bypass the stator and rotor It just doesn’t spark through the stator and rotor.
 
JRay77 said:
Outside the cylinder with alligator clips jumped from plug to head for solid ground. The system works when I bypass the stator and rotor It just doesn’t spark through the stator and rotor.
Click to expand...

Just so I understand
Everything connected but the spark plugs outside cylinder grounded -- No spark
But the box and coil is alive without rotor and magnet.

Just to take it again .if the 2 wires to the stator are at the wrong place it ( Spark ) comes at the wrong time and wont fire the bike even if there is spark

I remember seeing fault finding procedures
Can be of help on the rotor and magnet

http://vintagebikemagazine.com/technical-articles/boyer-trouble-shooting/
 
Jan_P said:
I have not checked the difference XS --Tri
Is that no spark with plugs outside or inside cylinder ?? .. If spark outside plugs grounded against Cylinder head
( be careful. )
Please check so the 2 wires to the pickup is not switched
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input. I checked everything and just went ahead and hooked the reg/rec and battery all up. Kicked it and I got spark. I have no idea what this means. Maybe better ground? The way this system is grounded? Who knows. Haha
 
Mailman said:
I just wanted to post some of the highlights of my Boyer installation on my XS2. This is the Boyer Micro Power kit for the XS650 that includes a micro coil , spark plug leads, and caps.
View attachment 200485
I purchased this to replace my Pamco ignition with built in advance, that was failing. I did a lot of chasing my tail before finally diagnosing the Pamco as faulty. That’s all contained in my other thread,

http://www.xs650.com/threads/mailmans-xs2-the-rebuild-again.59075/page-28#post-711220

So after stripping the Pamco system out of my bike I began the Boyer installation.
Assemble and install the magnetic rotor,
View attachment 200486 View attachment 200487 View attachment 200488 View attachment 200489

On the other end of the all thread that holds the magnetic rotor, goes a bushing that fits in the end of the cam and a couple of washers and a nut.
View attachment 200490

Then install the stator plate……..and we hit the first snag. There are metal straps securing two pick up coils to the stator board, they are soldered in place on the back side of the board. Except three of the four solder spots were missing,
View attachment 200491

I contacted Boyer ( and this is what I love about them ) , they immediately apologized for the inconvenience and dropped a new one in the mail for me. They did not want the old one back, so I felt free at that point to attempt a repair. I ran to the hardware store and picked up some electronic solder,
View attachment 200492

And soldered the remaining three spots. ( Still waiting for the other board to arrive from the U.K.)
View attachment 200493

Next it’s time to mount the board, which brings me to my next modification, credit for this idea goes to @Paul Sutton. The mounting posts for the stator board are unsupported under half of the post.
View attachment 200494 View attachment 200495

What Paul did here was to machine some longer supports with a notch on one half. What I did was ,look around the shop for something I already had. I started going through my fender washers with a caliper until I found one that was exactly 2.5 mm thick, then I layed out a couple of supports. A little work with a hack saw and file and I had these.
View attachment 200496 View attachment 200497 View attachment 200498

Which I then stuck on with some JB Weld and painted, and installed.
View attachment 200499 View attachment 200500

Now the electrical, @grizld1 has installed a lot of Boyers, and I know he’s not the biggest fan. He has some valid criticisms of Boyer, mostly concerning not building a more robust unit. And honestly I kinda agree with that, it hasn’t changed or been redesigned since they started making them. Anyways, I went back through all the Boyer threads I could find where The Griz weighed in and one nugget I took and ran with was the Boyers need for a good clean supply of power. It is sensitive to low voltage. So I took his suggestion and brought power straight from the battery to the Boyer by way of a relay. I picked up power from the battery, to a relay, through a 10 amp inline fuse and straight to the Boyer. I used the red/white wire ( the key on hot wire) that comes out of the wiring harness ( from the kill switch ) up by the coil and used it only for a trigger wire for the relay. ( Note to protect the relay from vibration it is mounted on a thick rubber washer, bolted to the rear fender which is also rubber mounted. )
View attachment 200501 View attachment 200502

The coil mounting and blue box placement. The coil placement idea I again poached from Paul Sutton, who by the way wrote an excellent Boyer thread right here on this very forum. And the blue box placement I borrowed from @GLJ , at first I placed it inside the little space behind the steering head and packed styrofoam around it, thinking I was insulating it from vibration. It was tucked in nice. Then I found out that it needs air circulation around it for heat dissipation, so I re did it.
View attachment 200503 View attachment 200504

I took care to route the Boyer control wires away from the alternator wiring harness and spark plug leads , as per Boyer, because it is susceptible to electronic interference. Next up the spark plug wires. They had a copper clip / plug that goes into the coil, that I’ve never seen before. I soldered it on just for good measure.
View attachment 200505 View attachment 200506

Boyer also included some very nice red NGK suppressed spark plug caps, which I chose not to use. I am buying suppressed spark plugs these days because they are easier to find. I contacted Boyer about this and they said it didn’t matter which was suppressed.
So everything together, and time to fire it up, I hooked up my timing light and started the bike, I quickly got it adjusted and it ran very well. Whew! :laugh2: I am running the timing at 5 degrees retarded, so that my full advance is now at 35 degrees. As per @TwoManyXS1Bs post about running his bike at a retarded setting,

http://www.xs650.com/threads/xs650-ignition-timing-revisited-are-we-too-advanced.45197/

this was also one of XSJohns mods. Makes the bike run a little cooler and easier on the starter.

Nothing left to do but go for a spin!
View attachment 200508

:pimp: Baby I’m back! Thanks to Grizld1 for all he has written on the subject, Paul Sutton for his excellent Boyer article which I found very helpful, GLJ ( Greg) for his helpful input and suggestions, and Jim as always for being the patient teacher and putting up with my seemingly endless questions. ;)
Later, Bob
Click to expand...
Do you have a more in-depth wire diagram for this boyer ignition unit?
 
Just an FYI.
I had a 2.5dcv voltage drop from battery to coils on my 74 TX650. Turned out to be the fuse holder. The spring loaded plastic fuse holder had erratic contact. Other than the starter, the 20A fuse feeds the entire DC circuit for the bike thru the ign.switch. Ran erratic with blinkers on around idle. LOL
 
dave_a said:
Just an FYI.
I had a 2.5dcv voltage drop from battery to coils on my 74 TX650. Turned out to be the fuse holder. The spring loaded plastic fuse holder had erratic contact. Other than the starter, the 20A fuse feeds the entire DC circuit for the bike thru the ign.switch. Ran erratic with blinkers on around idle. LOL
Click to expand...
Experience from here suggests that in particular the Boyer Bransden requires as close to battery voltage as possible. Of course, the better the voltage on the coils primary winding, the fatter the spark from the secondary windings regardless of the ignition system type. From what I read here though, it's a prerequisite for the BB ignition to work well.
 
Its been a long time said:
Experience from here suggests that in particular the Boyer Bransden requires as close to battery voltage as possible. Of course, the better the voltage on the coils primary winding, the fatter the spark from the secondary windings regardless of the ignition system type. From what I read here though, it's a prerequisite for the BB ignition to work well.
Click to expand...
Uhm, yes, and I was one of them as suspected low voltage was making the BB box shut down so I mailed BB and asked. They said the unit is designed to shut down if given a low voltage but that would be very low say in the 6 V region IIRC. Have since found that my XS was suffering from intermittent supply on the ignition circuit, due to a faulty connection in the fuse box - at times the voltage would have plummeted and the BB would have shut down.

So good voltage is best but not sure if just slight losses though switches and so forth would give the box an attack of the vapours?
 
Boyer B can be Difficult to start if Battery is low 11.5 ish or lower at box and Coil .( Which can look higher across battery. )
But the same for points
Even with kick starter and it can fire at undesired times
Kickback and Shooting in the Exhaust

I Use a separate extra ground wire from Boyer B Ignition all the way to battery Minus
 

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