BS34 Float Help

gggGary said:
So what we're saying here is the hot tip is to quit "chasing a problem". The way forward is to do (redo) the wake up drill, checking, and doing any needed repairs, up grades, to each system as you go. As the Grizzled one always says: compression, spark, fuel.
Set cam chain, set valves, now do a compression check. Go through and test all parts of the iggy. Then see if you have bright spark at the proper time, both idle and revved. Now go though the carbs using the carb guide found in tech "till your eyes bleed" Do not leave out ANY part of the process. When you are certain all the parts are correct, clean, and working If it STILL doesn't run well, start troubleshooting.
Click to expand...

Gary, I've done all of that except have not done anything with the ignition other than pull the flywheel and clean it all. I spent enormous amounts of time on the carbs replacing almost everything, cleaning everything and adjusting. The only thing I still feel iffy about is the float levels. Seems every time I'd measure I'd get a different reading and when I'd get it perfect with the clear tube test I'd put it on the bike and it would either not start or spew fuel out. Now it starts and doesn't spew fuel so not sure what else I could be doing with it. I've adjusted both cam chain and valves. Have not tried to time it though. There's no reason I can think of why timing would be different from factory setting.
 
grizld1 said:
Nope, you're not "screwed for the winter," you're just given an opportunity to do needful things without being pressured by the urge to get the machine on the road.
Apart from setting valve lash there's not much to be done about compression until you can run the motor, so you might start by cleaning every switch and connector on that bike and applying a dab of dielectric grease. Then have a look at Gary's charging system guide in Tech. Gary announced a clear intention of writing a reference thread, but for some reason guys had to interrupt, divert, and distract with their personal questions--a species of vandalism that pisses me off no end. So what you might do is to print off the material and do some cut-and-paste editing, chopping out the useless diversions and leaving Gary's fine work as unmolested as possible. When you're done with that, download the factory service manual from www.biker.net (it's free, thanks to Jean Akers' generosity). Then proceed to ignition checks.
Click to expand...

Thanks Grizld! This is good advice and I will take it. What I meant by 'Screwed for the winter' is that I won't be able to get the bike in the barn if there's much snow, just because of the slick tires and the hill. I don't really have any room for it in my garage and I don't want to leave it outside & exposed to the elements all winter after doing so much work on it. If I get it in the barn it will be protected from the really nasty weather that's coming & I should be able to work on it some when weather is decent. However, last year we got snow early in November and it stayed until May.
 
Thanks guys for your insights. I'm gonna get working on printing Gary's charging guide. I'm thinking I'll probably end up replacing the ignition and maybe the wiring harness, though I'm a bit leery of getting in over my head on that. Electricity has always been something that has eluded my full understanding. I'm comfortable enough with splicing wires, making sure of a good ground and simple stuff but not so much on the ohms vs. volts vs. amps aspects.

Guess it wouldn't hurt to try going a bit more rich on the jetting first since that's a simpler task.
 
I use SAE battery tender cable on all my bikes and keep a digital voltmeter on a cable long enough to mount up near the handlebar. A lot of us old codgers like to be able to see the charging system health as we ride. Those little combo voltmeter USB chargers are handy specially if you use your phone for GPS duty. Wired directly back to battery, lets you charge a phone even when the bike is off.
Run it til it breaks up keep it going like that for a bit if you can, pull and inspect the plugs. I have one of those inline spark testers I'll throw it on and go ride if I got a "miss" problem see if there's a spark issue. With a fully charged battery one TCI "test" is unplugging the voltage regulator, ride to the problem RPM, see if anything changes. Testing pickups is straight forward with a VOM.
The factory iggy test is to check and eliminate all the components as a problem til the TCI is the last untested unit. then replace that.
A badly worn broken pickup wire by where the bundle passes the sprocket has happened on several machines 'round these parts. Gives a similar probs as yours.
 
Not read through that thoroughly.
But as i Understand it we are talking a bike after a long standstill since 2005
Carburetors are serviced
With a factory CDI box
As I understand it wont rev up properly above a couple of thousand rpm

I am a cheapskate but that there is Asking for trouble

There was an issue with the spark plug cap separating from the wire. I cut off about 1/4 inch from the wire, then installed the cap with a twisting motion to set the screw then taped the cap to the wire with Gorilla Tape. Should hold for a while.

That is also something to do like now today replace spark plugs

and I have not replaced the spark plugs yet.

New spark plug wires and new spark plugs
tank inspection so not things is flushed into the carburetors rust .

Then the battery should be charged I think it would be possible to wake up -- Of course not certain but charge it or it will get destroyed if Voltage drops
After that measure charging voltage as per Mr 5T s post

If that looks OK and it still wont rev I would service the ignition circuit Connectors and Ground point and wires
Including fuse holder and kill switch
Positive mindset I feel this can be normal wake up problems

I once had a friend that bought Volkswagen beetles As cheap he could find them with a MOT
One of them did not run properly misfiring and he asked me for help getting it run over the summer at least ..Upon opening the lid
I was all black in there it looked as if Someone had hosed it down with Black oil
Newer seen it before or after.
I broke out into laughter .. Not exactly the right thing to do with a new purchased friends car.
Bicycle to the service station the ignition wires spark plugs a distributor lid if i recall right ..
He had some solvent we wiped off the worst black smear --Wroom Wroom Wroom Wroom
I don't think he even set the ignition timing or washed the engine A least drove the year some lasted 5 years .. and then he bought the next one
Wrecks all of them but he had low car costs
 
gggGary said:
I use SAE battery tender cable on all my bikes and keep a digital voltmeter on a cable long enough to mount up near the handlebar. A lot of us old codgers like to be able to see the charging system health as we ride. Those little combo voltmeter USB chargers are handy specially if you use your phone for GPS duty. Wired directly back to battery, lets you charge a phone even when the bike is off.
Run it til it breaks up keep it going like that for a bit if you can, pull and inspect the plugs. I have one of those inline spark testers I'll throw it on and go ride if I got a "miss" problem see if there's a spark issue. With a fully charged battery one TCI "test" is unplugging the voltage regulator, ride to the problem RPM, see if anything changes. Testing pickups is straight forward with a VOM.
The factory iggy test is to check and eliminate all the components as a problem til the TCI is the last untested unit. then replace that.
A badly worn broken pickup wire by where the bundle passes the sprocket has happened on several machines 'round these parts. Gives a similar probs as yours.
Click to expand...

Gary, in a thread started by you I found a link to download a manual. Was a bit confused bc it looks like it's for 650E & I have G. There's a supplement for G. Can I use the E manual for everything not covered in the G supplement?

It might take me a while to get up to speed on some of the things. For example, above you say, 'Testing pickups is straight forward with a VOM.' I presume you're referring to the voltage regulator since you mention it in the previous sentence. I'm not sure at this point what readings I'd be looking for with that test but I assume I'll find that somewhere in the manual. Sorry for my density (denseness?).

I have an inline spark tester that lights up when there's spark. Unfortunately, both sides of my tester are for plugs with the screw on heads & my plug caps are for plugs without those caps. I can find some caps to put on the plugs but the other end of the checker won't fit into my plug caps so I can't use that tester unless I replace my plug caps. So it looks like I'll be buying a new spark checker as well as plugs. Pulling the plugs and laying them on the cylinder seems to produce a decent spark.

One more thing: I tried the test of using a feeler gauge right outside the ignition cover. Tried it with 3 thousandths and 8 thousandths. I could see a very slight bending of the blade but it was almost imperceptible. What exactly is that telling me? The ignition can't be completely shot because the bike runs...
 
Jan_P said:
Not read through that thoroughly.
But as i Understand it we are talking a bike after a long standstill since 2005
Carburetors are serviced
With a factory CDI box
As I understand it wont rev up properly above a couple of thousand rpm

I am a cheapskate but that there is Asking for trouble

There was an issue with the spark plug cap separating from the wire. I cut off about 1/4 inch from the wire, then installed the cap with a twisting motion to set the screw then taped the cap to the wire with Gorilla Tape. Should hold for a while.

That is also something to do like now today replace spark plugs

and I have not replaced the spark plugs yet.

New spark plug wires and new spark plugs
tank inspection so not things is flushed into the carburetors rust .

Then the battery should be charged I think it would be possible to wake up -- Of course not certain but charge it or it will get destroyed if Voltage drops
After that measure charging voltage as per Mr 5T s post

If that looks OK and it still wont rev I would service the ignition circuit Connectors and Ground point and wires
Including fuse holder and kill switch
Positive mindset I feel this can be normal wake up problems

I once had a friend that bought Volkswagen beetles As cheap he could find them with a MOT
One of them did not run properly misfiring and he asked me for help getting it run over the summer at least ..Upon opening the lid
I was all black in there it looked as if Someone had hosed it down with Black oil
Newer seen it before or after.
I broke out into laughter .. Not exactly the right thing to do with a new purchased friends car.
Bicycle to the service station the ignition wires spark plugs a distributor lid if i recall right ..
He had some solvent we wiped off the worst black smear --Wroom Wroom Wroom Wroom
I don't think he even set the ignition timing or washed the engine A least drove the year some lasted 5 years .. and then he bought the next one
Wrecks all of them but he had low car costs
Click to expand...

Jan P. Thanks for your comments and your story about your friend's Volkswagens.

Yeah, you seem to have a good understanding of where I am with the bike. There shouldn't be any debris coming out of the tank because I flushed it 3 times with EvapoRust.

I could be mistaken but I thought I saw a thread that said the plug wires on my 1980 XS650G are not a replaceable item. Yes, I know I need to replace the spark plugs. I will do that promptly. As I mentioned in my reply to gggGary, when I pulled the plugs and laid them on the engine they both seemed to make a decent spark.

I will try 5T's recommendation & see what happens.
 
Use a manual for an 82/83.

Pays to mix and match some manuals to get at the area you want to work on. Special manuals 78-80SG/G are not the best as they are poor copies/scans.

the 82/83 manuals have better pics and they go into good diagnostic explanations covering the electrics after Yamaha introduced the TCI ignition

Here is the SK/J Manual
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/xs650-xs650sj-service-manual/

Download the different manuals from the650cafe............will have to load, older posts, to go through all the manuals available. Some owners manuals as well as assembly manuals and parts manuals.
https://thexscafedotcom.wordpress.com/tag/manual/
 
Orange to black should read around 700 ohms.
Same with gray to black.
TCI pickup measure.JPG


I took the end of my spark tester and ground it down to fit the small diameter plug cap,
other end you can thread a cap on the plug....
 
Tinker Taylor said:
I had some time to read, and just caught up through all 14 pages. Very interesting and learned a lot! Makes me want to pull the carbs just to take a peek inside. And now the head! :D
'TT'
Click to expand...

Haha! Tinker, if you read the whole thread you know that you can't pull the head till after you've removed the motor from the frame... Or did you mean the other Head? :laugh:
 
The end (connector) is behind the plastic side cover, back by the battery. look behind or under the air filter. it's a three wire plug with the orange gray black.

But long as you're that far good time to check your brushes.:sneaky: If you haven't already.
PS everything looks neat and tidy in there. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
bul_racer said:
Gary, How do I access these wires? Do I have to remove the cover?

View attachment 203238
Click to expand...
If you end up needing to remove the pick up coil, those "rivets" are actually threaded screws, you can slot the heads with a cut off disk in a dremel tool and turn them out.
The common but very fragile cut off wheels.
F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FsCFPwJ68C10%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg


This kit is a bit pricy, but the wheels last forever because the mount is flexible enough to keep them from shattering.
ges-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61DByimJeKL._SL1000_.jpg

I've had this set for several years and many uses, still on the first wheel (getting worn down) Previously I'd gone through (broke many) 100's of the ones above.
 

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