Cam chain guide replacement, first attempt

[John Regular]

I have a lot of motorcycles, more than I probably should. I have accumulated them over the years, half are projects as in "non running" and the other half need maintenance so they don't end up on the project list. I have way too many to afford the upkeep on but I still want more. About a month ago I picked up another xs650 (my third) off marketplace. My other two are a Cafe/Tracker and a Chopper and are becoming perpetual projects due to running into problems and losing "creative vision". This one,however, was completely stock and original, all the pieces were there, just needed a battery and clean gas should be no problem, or so I thought. I found metal shavings and black plastic bits while changing the oil, tell tale signs of a chewed up cam chain guide. Having had never dug into a motor that deep before I decided I would try it on a spare motor that I had already on a stand instead of pulling the existing one out of the bike. and who knows maybe it would be in better shape and I could just swap it in place and do a proper rebuild on the original. It was not. it was way worse.unfortunately. I named it Mallory. I name all my vehicles it's easier for me than saying "the chopper" or other Xs650 that has the tail hoop cut off or the one that's all original.. Instead I say "Yoshimi". "Persephone" or "Ruby" ( a 1981 special 2 in new ruby red) I even bought it on a Tuesday if you believe it. So this is the story of Mallory and the state she is in
So I read threads and watched videos and learned that I needed to take the head off to get to the guide. I started the process in my carport as the weather had been, it was already there and heavy AF to move. Then it started raining and I knew it would probably develop rust if I pulled the head out there and left it for any amount of time so I packed it t the back door of the garage and got it up onto a harbor freight welding table without any damage save for a few disks in my lower back. Then the fun began. If you have watched Night flyers video on removing the head He suggests not trying to keep the chain in tact as he did in the video and I concur. That was a PITA to get out and I was afraid that I had scratched the cam lobes but didn't. I got the head off and the front chain guide out and it definitely needs replaced. Well as far as my novice eye can tell. I'm sure that there are alot of other issues and tell tale signs that the Gurus can see and shed light on. here's a few pictures, she's a dirty girl but I'm hoping to I can clean her up make her presentable
Also, I found this. I'm a little worried she might have a crack problem should I be concerned?
Any info, advice, suggestions would be greatly appreciated as these are uncharted waters for me.

 

[Its been a long time]

Hmmm. That does look suspiciously like a crack. Not leaking any oil though?

 

[John Regular]

Hmmm. That does look suspiciously like a crack. Not leaking any oil though?

Not there, but she leaks in other places. Did you see the front head gasket area?

 

[Its been a long time]

Not there, but she leaks in other places. Did you see the front head gasket area?

Yes, your rebuild will fix head gasket issues, I'm sure.

My 650D leaked oil like a sieve.

 

[John Regular]

Yes, your rebuild will fix head gasket issues, I'm sure.

My 650D leaked oil like a sieve.

I'm just wondering how far I should go with it. Some people say you might as well pull the jugs others don't but don't know how i would clean all that sh!t off the pistons if I didn't

 

[Its been a long time]

I'm just wondering how far I should go with it. Some people say you might as well pull the jugs others don't but don't know how i would clean all that sh!t off the pistons if I didn't

If you don't pull the cylinders off, you're inviting a base gasket leak. And the engine has to come out and the cylinders off anyway.

I would do it now

 

[nj1639]

That last pic is a casting flaw, I’ve one too.

 

[John Regular]

Roger that. any feedback on the Vesrah gasket kit from 650 central. All I have read about the Athena kit has been negative. Is there another supplier?

 

[John Regular]

Not much to report progress wise just the long wait for parts and more questions such as "Does this look F#cky"? I'm pretty sure it is but can it be used if I can't get half the torque value before the filter starts to collapse like that? Can I use locktite ? I just wanted to see if Ruby would fire up without making any horrible noises and then I would take it out again and inspect. I got this one from one of the Not Mikes suppliers and was hoping for the best, is it FUBAR, No Bueno, Marku, SheiBe?
As for Mallory, it was a struggle but I finally got her rockers off ( hehehe ) and here are some better pictures of the rocker and shaft wear. It looks good to me but what do i know. and check out this cool little tool I found in the tail pack that came with my first XS ( Yoshimi ). Was that original equipment?

 

[gggGary]

throw out the torque wrench and use your brain to snug up the filter. Don't crush it
cough having changed 30-40? sump filters, never crushed one and never seen a loose bolt.............
one rocker looks f'd the other OK, that shaft is fubar. they should be shiny and smooth. Always remove and check the orifice at the base of the oil feed tube.
More engines have been ruined by silicone wielding goober monsters than by neglect..........

 

[jetmechmarty]

Vesrah gaskets.

@desmoman900 put a copper base gasket in the engine he rebuilt for me at my request.

 

[GLJ]

Make sure you fix the "hump" on the sump cover.

 

[John Regular]

throw out the torque wrench and use your brain to snug up the filter. Don't crush it
cough having changed 30-40? sump filters, never crushed one and never seen a loose bolt.............
one rocker looks f'd the other OK, that shaft is fubar. they should be shiny and smooth. Always remove and check the orifice at the base of the oil feed tube.
More engines have been ruined by silicone wielding goober monsters than by neglect..........
View attachment 370371

In my defense when I took those pics they appeared as shiny and smooth as can be with little rainbow hues surrounding them, It was late(early) and I was tired but ten I heard a voice ever so softly say "don't go to sleep yet you should go outside and get some air, drink some water then put a lid on that solvent you have been breathing and open a window ".... Not really, though my eyes were blurry but not from fumes so much as me rubbing my eyes with irritants on my hands. and a wise man once said "everything's better when wet" or appears to be. I use the torque wrench because
i don't trust my brain and fear it may be out of spec. I took more pics and they look BAD to me, but hey what do I know

 

[gggGary]

Yeah it looks like they were run dry (galling)..... but in your defense pictures can lie about metal surface condition.
this is the fitting with the restriction. (between the crankcase and oil pipe)
just make sure it's clear, I've found a piece of silicone stuck in there while doing an engine tear down.
Use care when reinstalling to the crankcase, guys have stripped the crankcase threads.
PS use a stop wrench on that hex when tightening the oil tube fitting.

 

[5twins]

Yes, you absolutely want to pull the jugs. If you don't, there's no way to center the new guide when you mount it. There's "play" in the mounting holes so it's possible (and very common) to install the guide crooked or cocked. To insure it's centered you must measure between the side of the tunnel and the side of the guide, both where it sticks out the top and where it hangs out of the bottom ......

00

 

[John Regular]

Yeah it looks like they were run dry (galling)..... but in your defense pictures can lie about metal surface condition.
this is the fitting with the restriction. (between the crankcase and oil pipe)
just make sure it's clear I've found a piece of silicone stuck in there before doing an engine tear down.
Use care when reinstalling to the crankcase, guys have stripped the crankcase threads. PS use a stop wrench on that hex when tightening the oil tube fitting.
View attachment 370385

View attachment 370385 I forgot to post that one it didn't look good. The pivot shafts look bad but the holders in the cover look even worse to me,wear marks and sharp metal burrs inside. Damn Galls! I am just going to order new everything just in case, I've got 4 of these motors and I'm sure I'll use them eventually. Can you tell from pics if the cover looks serviceable. I intend to do all the measuring but haven't received the Caliper and Mics I ordered because they were still in in my cart, patiently waiting for me to push a button and complete the order. All the while I was waiting for any status update from Amazon, Mikes sent at least 3 emails reminding me that I still had stuff left in my cart from almost a year ago. Say what you will but pre purchase customer service is where they truly shine above the rest. I'm just busting balls as I have never had any problem with customer service and appreciate the fact that anyone is still producing this stuff, crap or not as I will most likely break a couple trying to install whatever. I don't want to buy Sh!t measuring tools because my harbor freight digital caliper started flashing random and incomplete number fragments like it was speaking in tongues, like that self destruct thing the predator had on it's arm counting down to oblivion so that's no good. But I have read that their mics are good for the hobbiest and Iwould prefer something I can read clearly like digital. So for my purposes and knowing that my Trade commonly uses the claws of a hammer to cut plywood would you have any recommendations or advice on these tools specifically? Any help will be and is greatly appreciated.

 

[John Regular]

Well I decided to get back to work on Mallory the forgotten motor today. I guess i was inspired by Jim's XS1 tear down and how he did it in an afternoon, down to splitting the cases, assessing condition, taking pictures and providing an impressive write up pointing out all the things I would have missed otherwise. So inspired I found a local independent mechanic to finish it for me as I had given up. She has been sitting in the garage for about a month half blocking the use of the back door because I had used a bungee tied to a shelf above said door to keep the timing chain taught on the crank gears. However, recognizing that impatience is a trait of the destructive impulsive I decided to stay the course. I'm bound to finish something, eventually. She's waited this long She'll soon be buzzing back to life (like freeze dried flies). So I thought I would button up the 81 (Ruby), see if she holds oil and move her out of the overcrowded garage. Scraping that gasket off the sump part of the case has been a major PITA but have managed to avoid ham fisting the mating surfaces. Inside the case however looks a little chewed up to me so thought I would take a page (or sentence) out of Jim's book and ask "what's wrong with this picture"?

 

[gggGary]

Nothing, nothing's wrong.
typical early aluminum casting "spiders" and the factory guy using a bastard file coarse grinder disk to knock off casting edge flash. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

 

[John Regular]

Nothing, nothing's wrong.
typical early aluminum casting "spiders" and hte factory guy using a bastard file to knock off casting edge flash. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Alright. That makes me feel a little better. What about the counter weights on the crank do they look F#ky at all or damaged?

 

[gggGary]

Alright. That makes me feel a little better. What about the counter weights on the crank do they look F#ky at all or damaged?

They look fine/factory also.