Caswell liner failure

When I read the number of tank liners failing, I really don't understand why you'd line your tank. For one thing it is impossible to totally clean the inside of a tank, it may look clean, but there are some areas you just can't see, like where the top is welded to the saddle. And of course if you part the job out, you are then reliant on someone else, doomed to failure.

Petrol is an oil base, as long as the tank is clean and there is petrol inside, it should remain reasonably clean. Of course there will always be some water in the petrol and rust spots may appear, but nothing a decent fuel filter can't fix.

In over 50 years of building and riding bikes, I've never lined a tank and never had a problem after the tank was cleaned inside.
Ethanol draws water and after it reaches a certain point of water content it becomes EXTREMELY corrosive to everything. Even at only 90/10.
 
Well u can do what I did if you don't have an issue with repainting the tank. Mix #2 heating oil (off road diesel the same shit) kerosene & little bit of acetone. I like using couple hands full of bb's also as it aerates mixture giving longer burn. It will get most off but depending on which product was used could have some left. For that I used lye & water. Be careful lye will tear your ass up. Wear nitrile gloves, long sleeve shirt or welding sleeves, a gator and goggles to be safe. Be sure to let it stay until it's done doing what it's gonna do. I gently rotated mine to get complete coverage.
Haha yeah for some damn reason when I go back in to fix auto corrects fuck ups on my phone it's repeating everything.
 
I've done 4 tanks with Caswell over the last 10 years or so with no problems. Prep consisted of cleaning with high pressure water followed by an overnight soak with a 50-50 mix of acetone and denatured alcohol and rust removal with Metal Rescue. If rust removal was a problem, I'd think there should have been at least one failure.
Actually I do think KBS says as long as you get everything that's loose out and get a good phosphorus coat with the etch it works great sometimes better than a smooth finish.
 
Ethanol draws water and after it reaches a certain point of water content it becomes EXTREMELY corrosive to everything. Even at only 90/10.
Yep, brake fluid also attracts water and rusts out slave cylinders, master cylinders and lines, but we counter that by attending to the problem every so often: changing fluid, cleaning the system, replacing parts as required and so on. I really don't see any difference between maintaining brakes, and their associated components or maintaining fuel systems or any other systems on the motorbike for that matter. In 50 years, I never had a problem with internal rust on fuel tanks. Maybe I enjoy pulling things apart and putting them back together again a little too much, but it has certainly paid dividends!
 
Yep, brake fluid also attracts water and rusts out slave cylinders, master cylinders and lines, but we counter that by attending to the problem every so often: changing fluid, cleaning the system, replacing parts as required and so on. I really don't see any difference between maintaining brakes, and their associated components or maintaining fuel systems or any other systems on the motorbike for that matter. In 50 years, I never had a problem with internal rust on fuel tanks. Maybe I enjoy pulling things apart and putting them back together again a little too much, but it has certainly paid dividends!
Yeah I agree but remember they don't make shit like they used to either. :banghead::laughing:
 

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I'd disagree with that: Metallurgy is a lot better than it used to be, paint is a hell,of a lot better than it used to be, machining is better, design is better. About the thing better in the past was things could be repaired, parts replaced, nowadays, it's all throw away because they can make it so cheaply now.
 
I'd disagree with that: Metallurgy is a lot better than it used to be, paint is a hell,of a lot better than it used to be, machining is better, design is better. About the thing better in the past was things could be repaired, parts replaced, nowadays, it's all throw away because they can make it so cheaply now.
Depends how far back we talking and are we comparing USA, German, Japanese steel of today or some Chinese made crap? My 66 Plymouth Satellite didn't get it's first rust hole until 2011 tho so it musta had good steel.
 
Back in the 50s, 60s and probably the 70s you could replace toaster heating elements, kettle elements and a whole host of other parts for appliances. Not today though, everything is throwaway. Metalurgy has been improved over the decades and is still being improved today. Back in the 70s, when the XS650 was being built, metals were terrible coming from Japan, aluminium castings were contaminated by all sorts of rubbish. Britain, famous for it's steels, did alright with steel, but their aluminium castings was never very good, porous, rough and that continued right into the 80s when the last 'real' Bonneville was made.
I did my time as a welder in the late 60s to early 70s, in the 60s steel was all Australian, but in the early 70s everyone started buying steel imported from Japan, terrible stuff, tube was twisted and there were all sorts of contaminants in it. It has improved since then though. Never owned a German bike or anything German for that matter, but their manufacturing processes are well known to be better than average.
Chinese? I don't have a problem with anything made in China, like any country's manufacturing, there are good and bad. I have Chinese $10 micrometers which measure exactly the same as my genuine Mitutoyo. My lathe, bandsaw, mill, belt sanders, pedestal drill, bench grinders and so on are all Chinese, never had a problem with any of them. I have a 4" Chinese angle grinder I bought nearly 20 years ago, despite being absolutely hammered it refuses to die. I can't say the same for several Makita power tools I binned, some only six months old.
Some Jeeps, the Vega, Pinto, dart, some mustangs, the Hornet, the Volare are all known for rusting. That's just American cars, there are plenty of British, Japanese, Australian and German cars that are all well known rust buckets.
 
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EDIT: I spoke to a radiator shop here when I was researching liners and they told me that they do a brisk business getting KREME and other old-style liner materials out of bike tanks. The problem is that in removing the liner, they WILL destroy any paint that is on the tank.

Pete
Not necessarily. I've removed liner from two tanks with expensive paint jobs by using Plastiease. You paint it on your tank and it is impervious to acetone. It then washes off with water. Works well but you should still be careful.
 
The only liner I have ever installed was POR15 - after extensive research. All of the others, but particularly KREME seem to dissolve if there is any ethanol in the fuel (and there just about always is around here AFAICT).

But, the most of convincing thing I heard about it was that Jay Leno (and I am not really a fan of his at all) uses it on his big-dollar restorations. POR15 seems to be impervious to just about anything and now, after about 6-7 years, it is still in good condition. The only downside was the effort to install it: there are several slightly messy steps and the final one is to keep turning the tank for several hours to distribute the lining all over while it cures - and believe me, this step is exhausting.

Consequently, for my other tanks, I just keep them full of fuel and pay attention to what is going on inside.

From what I can find out, KREME and similar products are old generation formulations and totally incompatible with modern fuels. They should be withdrawn from the market - but of course, why would a company blow-up its own product if people are still buying it?

EDIT: I spoke to a radiator shop here when I was researching liners and they told me that they do a brisk business getting KREME and other old-style liner materials out of bike tanks. The problem is that in removing the liner, they WILL destroy any paint that is on the tank.

Pete
"Consequently, for my other tanks, I just keep them full of fuel and pay attention to what is going on inside."

Me too
I just cleaned out a tank with Metal Rescue and it got the rust out nicely then rinsed with water air dried with hair dryer coated with gas oil mixture for a few days and I just keep the tank full
I jus wouldn't want the tragedy of a failed liner
Here's the tank after Metal Rescue and before the oil gas mixture
Edit: The photo looks much worse than the tank does to the naked eye and I now use fuel filters
Don't think I really need them but for a few bucks more new fuel line new filters
 

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Not necessarily. I've removed liner from two tanks with expensive paint jobs by using Plastiease. You paint it on your tank and it is impervious to acetone. It then washes off with water. Works well but you should still be careful.

Now THAT is well worth noting! Thanks for sharing - great info!

Pete
 
In the past, I've used blue metal. Put a few handfuls in the tank and shake until your arms fall off. To remove any remnants of water, I've used metho.
 
OMG, so it's just been an advertisement.
Haha Wait, What?!?!? :laughing:No I seriously forgot about it. There's a link on their site somewhere that shows samples they've had soaking in various stuff for like 10 years or some crazy time. But I like because of it's high strength #'s used it for high strength panel bonding when welding wasn't possible.
 
Hey where's the best place to get tires? And have any you guys done the "Darkside" thing? Damned 210/40/18 rear tires are getting expensive!!! LoL
 
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