Charging system woes

[Trgglynn]

The weak field says you are not getting enough current through the rotor. That current has to flow through the brushes to charge the rotor. So make sure the brushes are making solid contact with the rotor. The voltage regulator controls that current.

Any connectors with corrosion can be causing you a problem.

Can I apply 12 volts to the outer brush to see if I can get output without ruining something?

 

[Trgglynn]

OR SHOULD I BUY A NEW WIRING HARNESS FROM MIKEXS ALL TOGETHER???

Some of the double pin connectors look bad, and one of them was at 50ohms in the bucket.

 

[Its been a long time]

Can I apply 12 volts to the outer brush to see if I can get output without ruining something?

Provided you know what you're doing you can put an unregulated 12v onto the rotor. It will generate maximum magnetic field as it's not a regulated supply. If run for a test it will give maximum output from the stator. If you're competent with electrics, I'd run it as a short duration test.

 

[Scottike]

4) Whatever the black hall sensor looking deal is at the 3 o’clock position on the stator, will the bike run without it working? Could it be worn out and causing me issues?

That "Black Hall Sensor" is the pickup for your ignition. It senses the crank position and sends the signal to your ignitor box.

 

[Trgglynn]

That "Black Hall Sensor" is the pickup for your ignition. It senses the crank position and sends the signal to your ignitor box.

Awesome, thank you for the info! I think the ignition pick up is fine. The bike does turn over and run, it just won’t charge.

Do you know what they call the part? I tried pricing out a new one but I could not locate a source for it anywhere

 

[Jan_P]

Again a step back is needed if I read correct
2 rotors and one new stater
The charging circuit is a separate one..
Remove other fuses except the main and charging if there is such
I would not apply external Voltage it can go south with a flash
I would not get a new Harness

I would get 2 or 3 New Voltage regulators of the correct type for cars --- Available and cheap look here on the forum which one
Clean connectors Plug it in if it Fries reevaluate.

 

[Trgglynn]

Again a step back is needed if I read correct
2 rotors and one new stater
The charging circuit is a separate one..
Remove other fuses except the main and charging if there is such
I would not apply external Voltage it can go south with a flash
I would not get a new Harness

I would get 2 or 3 New Voltage regulators of the correct type for cars --- Available and cheap look here on the forum which one
Clean connectors Plug it in if it Fries reevaluate.

Copy that, I’ll pull the fuses when I am back at the bike. I’ll also clean the plugs.

I did buy a second regulator at one point (81 new aftermarket, stock style) and it may have gotten burnt out as well. I’ve been having issues finding the info to test the regulator. However, the guy that sold me the bike also passed on a regulator and rectifier (two separate units).

 

[Jan_P]

Not sure i have read through .But here I am .at
The charging circuit has mainly parts rotor / stater / regulator / rectifier
The stater and rectifier are more robust than the other . It can happen they break .But lets ensure the right regulator type
is in place and working.
Please ensure you have the right type regulator for a post 1980 model in the US -- older are different
You can find info in the Tech section.

Pictures are helpful on the regulators and rectifier maybe we can tell something

 

[Trgglynn]

Update! I am back at the bike I’ll upload some pictures. It looks like a mess right now because I have the old stator body hooked up but the wires are routed outside for testing. Same with regulator, it’s the original to the bike.

Against your recommendations, I jumped ground to the outside brush and doing so temporarily upped my battery voltage to 16v. I ran it this way for about three seconds with my old regulator. I have doubles of most parts now due to my inexperience so I figured it would be a worthwhile risk to take to cut down the troubleshooting time.

I believe I in fact have a grounding issue. I’m honestly not sure how all the components get their ground. Obviously through a wire, and some how to the frame but I do not see a lot of the ground locations.

I would rather not buy a new harness, but could you all please share your recommendations on how to repair or rerun this line?

 

[Trgglynn]

And here is a picture of my permanent setup.

Big shout out to @Jim for rebuilding my rotor. The craftsmanship is great, it puts out current, and not only that he is incredibly fair with his services. Jim you eliminated a huge headache for me and I really appreciate that!

 

[Jim]

Against your recommendations, I jumped ground to the outside brush and doing so temporarily upped my battery voltage to 16v.

Your bike has a Type "A" regulating system. That means the regulator controls the ground to the rotor. Grounding the brush and jumping up to 16v means everything is working as it should EXCEPT for the regulator. A type A regulator regulates the ground brush.

I haven't read this whole thread, so pardon for asking already asked questions, but what regulator are you using? If it's a type "B" regulator, it won't work.

 

[650Skull]

Going off this pic

Your front indicaters have 2 wires coming out of the stem.
1), Red
1), Black

Factory indicaters have one = power

You have the earth set up as from the factory.

You have
Red wire, from indicaters, blanked off
Black wire to Ch, (chocolate) wire
Black wire to Db, (Dark brown) wire

I would b removing a bulb, then continuity test the red and black wire from the stem, diagnosing for sure they are wired properly
Once tested use those 2 wires, (red/black) to the loom.

Seems odd the red is not used. Especially being a heavier gauge I would have thought that was the power wire to Ch and Db indicated circuit......I realise there is no guarantees with aftermarket indicaters

Remove the earth ring under the stem nut. Don't have to but, I would

 

[650Skull]

Yellow pointes to an exposed wire,
L, (blue),

Damaged wire
L, (blue).

 

[Trgglynn]

pinstripe...,

The best way to test it is to eliminate it. You didn't say what year or model you bike is as there are two setups. One is '71 to '79 and the other is '80 to '83.

If an early model unplug the regulator plug of the reg /rect, run a jumper from the battery + terminal to the green wire brush.
If a late model, then run a jumper from ground to the green wire brush.

In both cases, after you have run the jumper, start the engine and check the battery voltage. If the battery voltage climbs steadily to 15 volts, then the regulator is bad. If the battery does not climb steadily to 15 volts, then the regulator is probably OK and you can look elsewhere for the problem, starting with the rotor resistance.

DO NOT ALLOW THE BATTERY VOLTAGE TO CLIMB ABOVE 15 VOLTS!

With the regulator bypassed, the voltage is...well...UNREGULATED and can climb to a very high and destructive number. The jumper is a test only...you cannot run the bike that way.

To test the rectifier part of the reg/rect, use an ohmmeter and measure between each white wire and the red wire, then reverse the test leads and measure again. One way should read a low resistance, the other should read a high resistance. The high should be at least 10 times the low resistance.

Then, do the same tests between each white wire and the black wire.

So according to this post, my old regulator (oem?) is bad because there is no resistance in either polarity across any of the white wires and the red. The same for the new one I bought from MikeXS.

Is that just coincidence?

Yellow pointes to an exposed wire,
L, (blue),

Damaged wire
L, (blue).

View attachment 358326

So I think the dark blue with green stripe is fine, just a camera delusion.

The light blue is definitely messed up. I’ll attach some pictures. Does anyone know how to remove the spade from the female plug??

Also, if the starter cut off relay was bad, would that affect the ground circuit? As far as I can tell the ground circuit is tied for the neutral switch (which doesn’t work), the charging system, and the starter cut off relay, and the light. I used to hear the relay click, so I assumed it is good but now it’s suspect too if it affects grounding.

 

[650Skull]

Going off this pic
View attachment 358325
Your front indicaters have 2 wires coming out of the stem.
1), Red
1), Black

Factory indicaters have one = power

You have the earth set up as from the factory.

You have
Red wire, from indicaters, blanked off
Black wire to Ch, (chocolate) wire
Black wire to Db, (Dark brown) wire

I would b removing a bulb, then continuity test the red and black wire from the stem, diagnosing for sure they are wired properly
Once tested use those 2 wires, (red/black) to the loom.

Seems odd the red is not used. Especially being a heavier gauge I would have thought that was the power wire to Ch and Db indicated circuit......I realise there is no guarantees with aftermarket indicaters

Remove the earth ring under the stem nut. Don't have to but, I would

Not interested????

 

[650Skull]

81 and later don't show the indicater circuit to the switch.

80 headlight and indicators are the same as later models.

That diode circled in an earlier diagram is on the 82J/SJ - 83K/SK not on the 81H/SH.

80 wiring for headlight/indicaters same as 81

 

[Trgglynn]

Not interested????

No no, I really appreciate the information! It’s been a busy day, I’m trying to squeeze the XS in around some other things. I’m a bit confused though because the blinker indicators do work. Perhaps I am missing the point or misunderstanding something.

 

[Jan_P]

What I can see on the Pictures is a " Regulator "having a lot of wires going in
Looks as a aftermarket combined Reg / Rect possibly with a fried regulator inside.

So if I get it right we don't know if there is a working regulator of the right type installed

You are in Portland so I believe it would be possible buy the regulator and rectifier over the counter in town somewhere from an Autosupplier
here in Europa a ca $ 10 -$ 15 a piece ..
For the older type .Be sure get the right one. If going that route

 

[Trgglynn]

What I can see on the Pictures is a " Regulator "having a lot of wires going in
Looks as a aftermarket combined Reg / Rect possibly with a fried regulator inside.

So if I get it right we don't know if there is a working regulator of the right type installed

You are in Portland so I believe it would be possible buy the regulator and rectifier over the counter in town somewhere from an Autosupplier
here in Europa a ca $ 10 -$ 15 a piece ..
For the older type .Be sure get the right one. If going that route

Correct, it is aftermarket.

https://www.z1enterprises.com/yamah...?fits-motorcycle=Yamaha/XS650/all-models/1981

It is one of two that I have that are solid state type, reg/rec combo. The other one I have has no writing on it whatsoever. Per Jim I need a type “A” combo unit. Do you happen to know of a part number for a unit I could have them search up locally? I guess I could have the auto parts store cross check the factory part number.

I’m still thinking I have a harness issue potentially because of the nuetral light not operating and having voltage on the ground lead.

I do also have a single rectifier and a single regulator as well. I want everything to be near stock (which I am feeling is a mistake), but I need to ride it more than ride on a principle.

 

[Jan_P]

Sorry don't have parts no but here on the forum are lists of what is used in the USA to be found

A picture of the separate Single Regulator and Rectifier can help
One can always change to something better near stock later once we found the fault