Charging system woes

[Trgglynn]

Sorry don't have parts no but here on the forum are lists of what is used in the USA to be found

A picture of the separate Single Regulator and Rectifier can help
One can always change to something better near stock later once we found the fault

I’m sorry I’ve been a mess today. I just realized you mentioned you’re out of the USA. I like the way you’re thinking. I’ll update with some pictures of the single rec /reg I have.

 

[Jim]

https://www.xs650.com/threads/diy-reg-rec-5twins-and-jim.55842/

 

[Trgglynn]

Here is an update. My light blue/cynanish wire for my neutral ground has been picking up voltage from somewhere, so I went ahead and ran a new ground from the neutral light to a junction, to the NSS, to the regulator, and back to the safety relay.
I adapted a plate and built a split reg/rec with parts I had.
After doing all that, I got magnetism and charging. However the regulator is now putting out 17.5v no matter where I adjust it to.

 

[Jan_P]

Try to avoid put out 17.5 it can heat up alternator
I dont have time now
But the High output is perhaps a feeding of power directly and not via the regulator that keeps it in
limits.
Alternator gets input on the brush but not regulated ..
Dont know the regulator in the picture but I would look in the connecting of the regulator ensure that the power fed to brushes actually passes the regulator be careful and ask here someone might chime in

 

[Trgglynn]

The two part numbers I have for the regulator and rectifier are:

VR3-Y650T
R255A-Y650T

I’m guessing they’re older. But I’m also wondering if the issue is wiring or if it’s the wrong type of regulator (Type B?).

 

[Jim]

In the last few minutes of this vid, I show how to check the batt reference signal going to the regulator. Give that a try and let us know what the voltage is.
(starts at about 8:49)

 

[Jan_P]

The two part numbers I have for the regulator and rectifier are:

VR3-Y650T
R255A-Y650T

I’m guessing they’re older. But I’m also wondering if the issue is wiring or if it’s the wrong type of regulator (Type B?).

Maybe even Worse ..Please check
I googled the Regulator and VR3-Y650T enters Oregon

http://oregonmotorcycleparts.com/V_regsEM.html

So the replacements are for Honda fours and Suzuki's I dont know this for sure but I believe Suzukis are PMA charging
then this is neither a type A or type B Regulator it is for another system. PMA
you have there .. .And it wont work

A phone call checking or just order the right one as recommended on the forum

 

[Trgglynn]

Well it appears I have nothing on the brown wire at the regulator plug…

 

[Trgglynn]

Maybe even Worse ..Please check
I googled the Regulator and VR3-Y650T enters Oregon

http://oregonmotorcycleparts.com/V_regsEM.html

View attachment 358658

So the replacements are for Honda fours and Suzuki's I dont know this for sure but I believe Suzukis are PMA charging
then this is neither a type A or type B Regulator it is for another system. PMA
you have there .. .And it wont work

A phone call checking or just order the right one as recommended on the forum

Thank you for the info! Fortunately I did not buy them at all. I do have a Yamaha OeM regulator that came on the bike. I presumed it was dead, but that appears not to be the case now that I have started to iron out the ground circuit. If I jump ground (black) from the frame to the black wire on the plug for the regulator the bike does drop RPM and the battery reads 15.2-16v

 

[Jim]

Well it appears I have nothing on the brown wire at the regulator plug…

The brown wire is a battery "signal" to the regulator. It "reads" the voltage at the battery and regulates accordingly.
To greatly simplify it, the regulator will charge the battery until it sees the battery voltage up to about 14-14.5V.
If what the regulator sees on the brown wire is low volts... or 0v in your case, it'll constantly charge (excessively) trying to bring the brown wire (batt) up to 14-14.5v... which it never will because the signal is missing.

You'll need to chase that brown wire back to find where it's losing it's power.

 

[Trgglynn]

To be honest, I think at this point I’m going to buy a harness off of MikeXS.
I had the regulator I had hanging from a zip tie for testing purposes and it arc’ed the frame and blew the back out. I’m at such a loss of words right now.

 

[Jan_P]

The brown wire is a battery "signal" to the regulator. It "reads" the voltage at the battery and regulates accordingly.
To greatly simplify it, the regulator will charge the battery until it sees the battery voltage up to about 14-14.5V.
If what the regulator sees on the brown wire is low volts... or 0v in your case, it'll constantly charge (excessively) trying to bring the brown wire (batt) up to 14-14.5v... which it never will because the signal is missing.

You'll need to chase that brown wire back to find where it's losing it's power.

Or perhaps jump brown from someplace else where it reads correct Voltage
on the loop after the switch and before load

 

[Stavros]

Hey all, first post. I bought a 1981 XS 650 knowing it has a charging issue. I have been lurking around here and the internet and trying to troubleshoot and familiarize myself with the system a bit. The issue I have is I am not getting voltage back to the battery, so at this point I have replaced the rotor and the stator with units from Mikes, and I am not getting magnetism nor output on the three white wires coming from the stator. The white wires off the stator ohm .5-.8 from each other, and the stator rotor ohms 5.6 between the rings.

I probably have a few electrical gremlins. The headlight doesn’t come on unless I jump two wires on the right side of the bike. I believe the safety relays are the issue there. Also, my bulbs are good but my neutral light isn’t coming on. Currently I have the connector for the neutral safety switch wired to a bolt to the frame. I’m kind of lost where to go with this. Is the regulator bad? Jumping the green wire on the pigtail leading to the rectifier to frame or ground does nothing.

Any ideas as to why I am not getting output from the stator?

Just a thought, did you replace the rectifier/ regulator?

 

[Trgglynn]

UPDATE:

Thank you all for your help! I’ve been having issues putting a lot of time into the bike because of some medical problems, but I did make progress! Charging solved.
My old rotor was bad, 100%. @Jim got me fixed up. Thank you again! Where things got wacky was my ignition had a short and I was having voltage issues because of that. I am wondering if that possibly fried the original regulator too. I didn’t pick up on that until later, but eventually I replaced the stator and the bike wiring harness. The problem I was having was between the main harness and the stator harness the polarity of the rotor wires was messed up. My neutral switch circuit was getting voltage and the brushes were dead. I was able to rectify that issue by changing the pin out of the stator harness and ordering a new regulator. So now I am getting 14.2v after I hit ~3000rpm, which should be perfect.

In 1974 did the XS have a combo rec/reg? I bought one on eBay that claimed it was from a 1974 but I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to say 84 or something but it works great.

 

[Its been a long time]

1974 XS650 had separate rectifier and regulator.

 

[Wagner73]

1974 XS650 had separate rectifier and regulator.

Perfectly correct. The combined reg-rec did not show up until 1980, as well as the change from a Type B to a Type A regulator circuit as per @Jim

 

[Jim]

In 1974 did the XS have a combo rec/reg? I bought one on eBay that claimed it was from a 1974 but I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to say 84 or something but it works great.

That pic is an '80 and newer combined reg/rec... in other words, the correct one for your bike.