Clutch Drag When Cold

dps650rider

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I have been having some issues with my clutch dragging when cold. Even if I let the bike warm up for several minutes after starting it often stalls the engine when I put it into first. Needless to say this is not so great for the transmission either.

I had it apart over the weekend and cleaned up the worn points where the friction and steel plates mesh with the basket and hub. This made a world of difference when it is warmed up but cold is still a problem. When I had the cover off and disengaged the clutch several of the plates stuck to the pressure plate and the others stayed put. Really looks like the stickiness of the cold oil is the culprit here, has anyone else had this problem?

BTW, running Valvoline synthetic 20-50 motorcycle oil, was thinking about trying something else to see if it makes a difference.
 
Noticed about the same on both Madness with 8 plate and the XS1 WJL stock clutch it's cool in the shed and VR1 20-50

GlJ had same comment on his 72 with 8 plate conversion and VR1 20-50.
 
I am thinking an adjustment issue
I put mine on the central stand rear wheel in the air.
Start the engine pull the clutch and put it in gear
if difficult adjust some more
Do it over again
When it is about right I pull in the clutch with gear in and running engine and try to stop the rear wheel with the foot
against the tire.
If No success adjust
Until is OK
If to far adjusted it will be noticed on kick or slipping clutch out on the road
 
I have been having some issues with my clutch dragging when cold. Even if I let the bike warm up for several minutes after starting it often stalls the engine when I put it into first. Needless to say this is not so great for the transmission either.

GlJ had same comment on his 72 with 8 plate conversion and VR1 20-50.
My small issue is similar but different. I make sure the clutch is not stuck by kicking it over with the clutch pulled in before starting. It just drags when disengaged for the first couple of miles. He may just need to kick it over with the clutch pulled until it won't turn the motor before starting.
 
What temperatures are we talking about? Cool for you might be warm for us Canuks. I’ve had my bike out several times in 60 degree weather (very warm for us in the springtime) and haven’t had the clutch stick (8plate). Running 20W40 oil iirc.
 
I have had the same issue recently, running 20W50, early morning start ups perhaps about 50 degrees F. The problem goes away completely when warmed up. I figured maybe I was just not warming thr bike up enough before starting out?
I rebuilt my clutch completely about 600 miles ago, but will try Jan P's advice.
 
Bike sits in my basement garage around 70 degrees. Let it warm up for 5 minutes and still not good enough.

Tried the kick start trick today, kick until it releases but if I engage the clutch and then disengage I find it is dragging just as bad again.

So what I did today was to let it warm up on the center stand, pull the clutch in and give it a couple good revs hoping to break them loose. Then put it in first while still on the stand, apply some throttle and the rear brake to unstick the clutch. Then off the stand and off I go. Quite a process but it works.

Still wonder if different oil or clutch plates would help.
 
Depending on year, the clutch release arm had different distances from cable mount to center, closer to the center, = harder pull but greater plate separation. Also the amount to slack off on the adjusting screw "by the book" IMHO is a bit generous. I snug down then back off maybe 1/16 of a turn (or not much) Have you carefully inspected the nylon portion of the worm gear? They are known to crack greatly reducing amount of clutch movement. Try extending the adjuster at the perch see if it improves cold action, may point at one of the issues above.
Not real common but warped steel plates happen, adding to drag.
 
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I have always used GJL's method of clutch lever pulled in and kick till the engine will not turn over.........

tim
 
Hey, Dps650rider.

...When I had the cover off and disengaged the clutch several of the plates stuck to the pressure plate and the others stayed put. Really looks like the stickiness of the cold oil is the culprit here, has anyone else had this problem?

Yup. I've noticed that clutch plates take on a stickiness, like sticky notes. I figure it's something in our modern oils, 'cause we didn't experience that back in the '70s.

Have a look in here (and follow any imbedded links).

http://www.xs650.com/threads/yamaha-xs650-experimental-clutch.47498/
 
I have been having some issues with my clutch dragging when cold. Even if I let the bike warm up for several minutes after starting it often stalls the engine when I put it into first. Needless to say this is not so great for the transmission either.

I had it apart over the weekend and cleaned up the worn points where the friction and steel plates mesh with the basket and hub. This made a world of difference when it is warmed up but cold is still a problem. When I had the cover off and disengaged the clutch several of the plates stuck to the pressure plate and the others stayed put. Really looks like the stickiness of the cold oil is the culprit here, has anyone else had this problem?

BTW, running Valvoline synthetic 20-50 motorcycle oil, was thinking about trying something else to see if it makes a difference.
Do you want to run synthetic oil (too slippery)
 
Yeah Well Thinking out loud ..
Valvoline synthetic 20-50 motorcycle oil,
Who knows what modern additives is in there ..
A synthetic chemical with additives not in Oils Back then and Perhaps plates not designed to withstand.
Cannot say if it is a problem here
But it can go wrong using modern things in old technology
I use mineral oils .. With the opposite problem for certain brands .Slipping clutch
Slipping clutch is also a problem on modern bikes so a fair assumption could be that a Modern synthetic oil is formulated to prevent slipping and there you are Plates glued together
 
Really like the synth because it doesn't get watery when worn but I think I'll try something different next change.
I didn't think running Synthetic oil worked for these old bike (could be wrong about that)
But I think we shouldn't be running the oils that are for higher mileage cars or to help them get better gas mileage as they would be to slippery for the clutch
Although I run full Synthetic in my 2001 Triumph and 2005 Honda Sabre with no issues (might even be recommended by the manufacturer
 
Tried removing some free play and it seemed to help a little, basically I have no free play now but the clutch doesn't slip so OK there.

I have a theory on the free play, I have heavier springs so the clutch cable is going to stretch a little more that it would with softer springs when the level is pulled all the way. Still last time I had the cover off it seemed like I had plenty of movement but maybe not enough.

One more thing, my bike is a 78. Which arm length does this have?
 
I have encountered severe clutch drag. I suspect that I have found the reason why. As part of my investigation , I did all the usual cable routing and external adjustments and improved the clutch action considerably but the drag was still there. Just using the kick starter with the clutch disengaged if sufficient to be able to diagnose drag. I needed to get at the plates and so needed to drop the engine oil.
Previously working on the bike I encountered issues left over from a previous owner: over-tightening of fixings. I suspect the a previous owner gunned up anything they ever touched including the 2 off 27mm sump drains. I couldnt undo either of these using my impact gun and had to revert to using a 600mm long wrecker bar in order to exert sufficient torque to undo the drains and even then they didnt give way easily. The oil which came out was thick, contaminated and gloopy. As soon as the oil had been dropped, I tried the clutch again and the drag had all but disappeared. I therefore conclude from looking at the slipping spanner damage to the drain plugs that succesive owners have not been able to change the oil and the sump will be full of sludge. I also suspect that the clutch will be fairly sludgy. I will therefore take off the sump plate and strip the clutch in order to clean everything out. I shall anneal the pump plug copper gaskets before refitting them. I also shall check the clutch components for signs of warping, glazing, worn grooves etc. I have read up about oils and shall use 20/40 mineral oil in the engine /clutch/ gearbox and I shall also try to ensure that the level is spot on.
As an aside, I will invest in a 6 point 27mm socket in preference to the 12 point socket which I have at the moment.
 
I have encountered severe clutch drag. I suspect that I have found the reason why. As part of my investigation , I did all the usual cable routing and external adjustments and improved the clutch action considerably but the drag was still there. Just using the kick starter with the clutch disengaged if sufficient to be able to diagnose drag. I needed to get at the plates and so needed to drop the engine oil.
Previously working on the bike I encountered issues left over from a previous owner: over-tightening of fixings. I suspect the a previous owner gunned up anything they ever touched including the 2 off 27mm sump drains. I couldnt undo either of these using my impact gun and had to revert to using a 600mm long wrecker bar in order to exert sufficient torque to undo the drains and even then they didnt give way easily. The oil which came out was thick, contaminated and gloopy. As soon as the oil had been dropped, I tried the clutch again and the drag had all but disappeared. I therefore conclude from looking at the slipping spanner damage to the drain plugs that succesive owners have not been able to change the oil and the sump will be full of sludge. I also suspect that the clutch will be fairly sludgy. I will therefore take off the sump plate and strip the clutch in order to clean everything out. I shall anneal the pump plug copper gaskets before refitting them. I also shall check the clutch components for signs of warping, glazing, worn grooves etc. I have read up about oils and shall use 20/40 mineral oil in the engine /clutch/ gearbox and I shall also try to ensure that the level is spot on.
As an aside, I will invest in a 6 point 27mm socket in preference to the 12 point socket which I have at the moment.
A post script: I took the sump plate off and found that I literally had to split the gasket so that both mating surfaces were left with gasket stuck to them.... that took some really careful cleaning off. The screen itself was absolutely trashed and may as well not have been there at all since it would have been bypassing through the holes in it. Oh happy days!The clutch was undamaged and cleaned up ok , the plates werent warped in any way. I did find that someone might have "race tuned " it since the springs free length was in excess of 37mm. I am not certain what new ones are but old ones need to be 34mm minimum. 3mm seems an aweful lot of shrinkage. This might tie in with the over jetted carb and the 31 tooth back sprocket. On the plus side, everything about the bike does tie in with the low miles on the clock. The swing arm spindle comes straight out , has no play on it at all and has the original bushes in it.
 
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