Clutch housing - cushion springs loose and missing lock washer

[bosco659]

I took apart the clutch today just to check things out for the upcoming season. Upon disassembly, I found there wasn’t a lock washer behind the nut that secures the clutch housing to its shaft. There’s supposed to be a Belleville washer there. I don’t have a dealer close by so I’m going to try to find one at an industrial supplier. Can someone supply me with dimensions - ID and OD? The shaft is 18mm so I believe the standard size Belleville washer will have a 19mm ID? I’d like to confirm that though.

I also noticed several of the cushion springs were not tight in the housing. 3 of them couldn’t be moved with my finger but the other 3 could be rotated in the recess and a couple had a minimal amount of end play. The looser springs are not broken. Is this cause for concern and spring replacement?

 

[5twins]

I think what you found is normal. Three of the springs are softer than the other three. Was it every other spring you found loose? If so then, like I said, I think that's normal.

Instead of buying a spring repair kit, for the same amount of money, and often less, you can usually find a whole used clutch assembly on eBay. If you go this route, I would get an '80 or newer 6 plate clutch, they engage smoother and are easier on those hub springs. And the one less plate doesn't seem to be an issue, at least on stock or near stock machines. If your motor was all hopped up then it might be. But if I had a highly modded motor, I think I'd get gggGary's 8 plate conversion.

 

[bosco659]

I think what you found is normal. Three of the springs are softer than the other three. Was it every other spring you found loose? If so then, like I said, I think that's normal.

Instead of buying a spring repair kit, for the same amount of money, and often less, you can usually find a whole used clutch assembly on eBay. If you go this route, I would get an '80 or newer 6 plate clutch, they engage smoother and are easier on those hub springs. And the one less plate doesn't seem to be an issue, at least on stock or near stock machines. If your motor was all hopped up then it might be. But if I had a highly modded motor, I think I'd get gggGary's 8 plate conversion.

Thanks, the loose springs aren’t equally spaced. Iirc two of them are adjacent to one another but I’ll have another look. I already have the 8 plate conversion and was actually thinking about going back to 7 plates since my engine is essentially stock. I’ll have to decide soon since I’d have to get a stock set of plates if I go back to 7. I never thought about an ‘80’s+ clutch assembly. Maybe I’ll look around and see what’s available.

If the Belleville washer is a pita to find could I use a split lock washer or forget about the washer altogether and reassemble it with red Loctite (that’s how it has been running for the past 7,000 km without issue)?

 

[5twins]

Yes, you could use a regular split ring lock washer. In fact, some models came with that.

 

[bosco659]

I looked at the basket and the “looser” springs are randomly located. They don’t rattle around, but can be rotated by finger pressure.

 

[gggGary]

Depends on the rider I guess but have had issues a few times with stock motors and 6 plate clutches .
Since I've never owned an XS from new I have no idea if those issues came from PO abuse, excessive slipping, nursing a poorly tuned motor.
Seems like on numerous used vehicles I had "bad" clutches "recover" after a period of my use.
I am not in the slighttest casting aspersions on your operation Vic!

 

[Its been a long time]

I don't recall back in the 70's that anyone had issues with Yamaha clutches slipping. I have wondered whether the much wider choice of oils available these days has something to do with it?

Back in the day, oils for bike engines and oils for wet clutches weren't a thing. We were all skint anyway, I just used to put in whatever 20/50 multi grade I could lay my hands on.

Today, times have moved on and I'll only use JASO MA spec oil in wet clutch motors.

 

[bosco659]

When I first got my bike it had been recently rebuilt by the po 1,000 km beforehand. He had installed XS650direct “performance clutch plates”. I wasn’t happy with their performance. They chattered when cold and were difficult to slip at a start. They also decided they wanted to slip on occassion in top gear. I then added stronger springs and thought the slippage was addressed. Then I bought a set of 8 plates from @gggGary. They worked great with very smooth engagement and zero slippage. I used them with Barnett springs, and currently have EBC’s installed.

I still “think” I have some clutch drag with the lever fully pulled so I took the clutch cover off to make sure all is ok. Then I found stuff that needed fixin’. While apart I’m weighing up options for reassembly. Back the way I had it or back to a stock configuration. Dunno what I’ll do. Thinking about it with input from my wallet, I may opt to reassembling as is. Btw, my perceived clutch drag was reduced by switching oil from 20W50 BelRay mineral oil to 20W40 Shell Rotella.

Time will tell.

 

[Jan_P]

I don't recall back in the 70's that anyone had issues with Yamaha clutches slipping. I have wondered whether the much wider choice of oils available these days has something to do with it?

Back in the day, oils for bike engines and oils for wet clutches weren't a thing. We were all skint anyway, I just used to put in whatever 20/50 multi grade I could lay my hands on.

Today, times have moved on and I'll only use JASO MA spec oil in wet clutch motors.

According to Clymer Manual
SAE 30 W or SAE 20 W 40

I Use 20 W 50 myself but strictly speaking it is not factory recommendation Probably should buy a better brand but on the other hand changes more often if not expensive .. Sometimes mine slips but rarely and I Can adjust it more

Does it matter -- who knows
Sometimes Oils even with the correct spec does not work
Heard of a Renault Automatic gear box . Poured in non factory oil correct spec did not shift
Back to factory worked again
Also bought for a sports bike correct spec ..Warm days after inspired riding rattled to much . Nervous ..had to take it out
Buy better brand with better high temperature capability Still the same Spec. on the sicker that is .Who knows if that is correct
As with gasoline . Starting mixing in .The sky is the Limit.

 

[bosco659]

When I switched from 20W50 to 20W40 the clutch action and shifting seemed to be improved and I noticed a bit more engine noise (valve train?). I’m happy with the 20W40 and it’s less expensive too!