Correct Coil and Ignition crank no start PMA

[816niner]

1977 XS650 installed XS Charge PMA and capacitor. Bike back fires once and try’s to start other times. I wanted to make sure I have compatible coil and Ignition. Pamco Ignition and Green XS Performance coil. Any help is appropriated thank you. Or point me to correct thread.
Looking for trouble shooting steps new to carbs and bikes.
Have bike wired using bare bones wiring diagram on forum.
First kick two throttles turn choke on back fired. Then try’s to start and dies. New plugs at .030 same result back fires once then diesels off at start. Thanks for help.

 

[Jan_P]

If this was me I would try to adjust ignition timing
If backfiring into carb it is to advanced
If it shoots into exhaust to late
I would try to have choke on getting a bit richer mixture since there is no airfilter but difficult to know
I don't know how ignition timing is adjusted on pamco
I notice a hose out into the open that looks strange

A video helps

 

[816niner]

Thanks for info. See you tube link, it back fires out exhaust only once then acts like it does not have fuel and diesels off like video, if it sits will back fire out exhaust. Only back fires or try’s to start with choke on.

 

[Signal]

The carb tubes in the open are not causing your problem. top one is a vent , bottom one is the float bowl over flow.
It looks like a VM 34 they do not have pumps, turning the throttle pre start has no effect.

You need to establish some timing marks, set up a degree wheel .Mark top dead centre, 15 degree BTDC for fire and 35 for full advance. Some may argue the full advance but 35 will run well.

Check your battery is fully charged, just read you have a capacitor. Replace it with a fully charged battery for now.
The intake is not going to make your life easy when it comes to tuning but I suggest you start with the timing set correctly.
Thats about all I can help.

 

[Jan_P]

Well this is a non stock setup ..But if this was me and a more stock carburetor and ignition and charging
I would try starter fluid in the intake.
Via that I would get better ignition response at the first strokes if not I would service the ignition and timing ( adjusting )
Doing that for a long time before checking the carburetors
On a stock ignition it is possible if careful to take out the spark plugs and ground them against cylinders to se if it is sparking at all. ( please google the how to do it -- it can damage the ignition if it is done wrong )

Are the spark plugs wet and does it smell petrol after some kicking without start in the room
please Be careful with fire

 

[650Skull]

Was the Charging and ignition set up on the bike when you bought it??

Did you do the wiring yourself??

Does the Pamco have a 7.5amp fuse on it??

Have you had the bike running at all before??

Pamcopete stopped using the green monster coils on the pamco's due to them causing the pamcos to blow.

Pamco pete also warned against using PMA's and a cap because again the voltage spikes can cause the pamco to blow. he advised having a battery in line to even out the voltage delivery.

Another problem when first starting a PMA with a pamco is voltage irregularities cause the pamco to blow so Pamcopete recommended the Pamco be wired up separate to the charging system to eliminate any spikes.

Read through this thread
https://www.xs650.com/threads/boyer-and-pamco-ignition.46859/

Be sure to read through several posts........In post # 3, an extract from the link

Battery-less - PMA Capacitor - E-Advancer
Standard Recommendation
Pamcopete, ...........My standard recommendation is to wire the PAMCO temporarily to a separate battery to get the engine running so you can trouble shoot the PMA.........One of four things will happen when you first fire up a PMA conversion:
1, ........The engine will start immediately, you will get 14.5 Volts on the cap and life will be beautiful! (Yeah, right...)
2,......... The engine will not start because you are getting zero output from the PMA and you will break your leg kicking it with no joy....
3, .........The engine will start immediately but the PMA will produce a destructive 20+ Volts and fry the entire electrical system, including the PAMCO...
4,...... ..The engine will start immediately but because you wired the capacitor in backwards the cap will explode and spray shrapnel all over the garage, killing the cat........Be careful and use a Voltmeter.......
Caution,...........If you have the capacitor wired in with reverse polarity, it will blow up as soon as the engine starts, so wear safety glasses (this is no joke).

 

[grizld1]

Yeah, the narrow flange on the intake bell suggests VM34. You'll find plenty of information if you click the Tech button at the top of the page and browse a bit. What's the history? Was the bike ever running well with that carb, or did somebody hang a carb with generic or plain wrong jetting on the bike? Those long tight radius intake runners aren't helping you, and they'll make life rather interesting if you try to use that setup in town/city traffic. Re. tuning, go here: www.amckayltd.com/vm34-36.pdf. I offered the most common baseline there, using the generic 2.5 slide. Some vendors use the richer 2.0 slide, which forces smaller pilot jets.

Welcome, and good luck with your project.

 

[816niner]

Yeah, the narrow flange on the intake bell suggests VM34. You'll find plenty of information if you click the Tech button at the top of the page and browse a bit. What's the history? Was the bike ever running well with that carb, or did somebody hang a carb with generic or plain wrong jetting on the bike? Those long tight radius intake runners aren't helping you, and they'll make life rather interesting if you try to use that setup in town/city traffic. Re. tuning, go here: www.amckayltd.com/vm34-36.pdf. I offered the most common baseline there, using the generic 2.5 slide. Some vendors use the richer 2.0 slide, which forces smaller pilot jets.

Welcome, and good luck with your project.

I really appreciate all the help. I have never ran engine. Guy said it ran, engine turned over. Bought already hard tailed. I remounted engine it was missing mount bolts. I installed PMA XS charge. I rewired following diagram on this site. kill switch 7.5 amp fuse.

 

[816niner]

Well this is a non stock setup ..But if this was me and a more stock carburetor and ignition and charging
I would try starter fluid in the intake.
Via that I would get better ignition response at the first strokes if not I would service the ignition and timing ( adjusting )
Doing that for a long time before checking the carburetors
On a stock ignition it is possible if careful to take out the spark plugs and ground them against cylinders to se if it is sparking at all. ( please google the how to do it -- it can damage the ignition if it is done wrong )

Are the spark plugs wet and does it smell petrol after some kicking without start in the room
please Be careful with fire

I will recheck spark I used spark tester after my son and I wired up we had spark through tester. Thanks for info

 

[816niner]

Well found the problem thank you all for the help and links. I made a mistake when I planned out my build. I overlooked My XS Charge system PMA and XS Charge capacitor are not compatible with Pamco ignition, good news I do not think Pamco is fried. Going to change out Pamco for XS Charge ignition. I will use Pamco on next build. The Green monster coil is not compatible either.

 

[816niner]

Wiring diagram and fine print on parts I purchased. Hate when I do dumb but learning is good keeps you humble

 

[816niner]

Was applying too much voltage to Pamco