Creating a new regulator rectifier from scratch (1980 and up)

[Prisondawg]

ultimately I have charging issues. I have been reading threads for hours and I see a lot of reference to creating a regulator rectifier from scratch using most often a Chrysler or a Fiat regulator, and a 3 phase bridge rectifier. I would like to attempt to do this build. But I’d like clarity on it.

I know there are two different versions of this build . One for 1979 and down and one for 1980 up. I know the need for the two different versions is the fact of points based ignition vs TCI. But I would like clarity in where the two builds deviate.

I’ve read about ungrounding the brushes in the 1979 and down bikes. What is the benefit of that (my bike is a 1981 so this is purely a curiosity)

My brush screw heads are pretty stripped out at this point and I ordered the nylon screws before doing my research, would it make a difference in a bike produced after 1980?

From what I can tell. My plan is to get the fiat regulator .

Part number 4475112

And the rectifier from windy nation

https://www.windynation.com/Rectifier/35-Amp-3-Phase-Bridge-Rectifier/-/218?p=YzE9MjA=

My understanding of the build is that the regulator has 2 wires. A red and a green

The red from the reg goes to the brown on the bike and the green from the reg goes to the green on the bike, meanwhile the body of the regulator itself will be grounded by either mounting to the frame or mounting to a grounded wire.

Meanwhile there are 5 spades on the rectifier.

Three of those spades have a ~ symbol on them. Those three will be attached to the three white wires from the alternator. The two remaining spades will be used for a battery positive and a ground ( does it matter which ?)

From there the two units must be mounted on a piece of aluminum whit some thickness to it. Do both pieces need to be mounted to the aluminum ?

It seems as though the fiat regulator is already made of heat sink. Can I just mount the rectifier to the regulator and let it cool through convection ? Or does it need its own heat sink?

Also as a related question, if my rotor proves to be bad, is it possible to use a rotor from 1979 or earlier model in a 1980 and up?

I read that pamcopete outlined how to create this regulator rectifier , however I couldn’t find a post from him about it.

Maybe this thread can serve as a unified post about this build.

 

[mrtwowheel]

I'm only going to touch on a few things here. Your ignition, points, TCI, has NOTHING to do with your alternator/charging system, TWO different systems.

Heat sinks..... I used the Fiat type regulator and the 30 amp ebay rectifier. Both of these have their own heat sinks already. No need for any other heat sink. I did use spacers to hold them away from the mounting plate.

I did wire mine according to pamco pete's instructions. And, I do have problems following any of his instructions, I can't be the only one considering ALL of the CONFUSION when it comes to any of his instructions. Not that I'm not grateful for him sharing these mods, that's just how it is.

It would be a great service for another member to start from scratch and RE-WRITE some of (all of) those instructions for the TECH section.

Scott

 

[TwoManyXS1Bs]

The difference in the 70-79 alternators vs 80-83 alternators is in the brush block and their wiring. Review the "nylon screw mod" thread for details.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/nylon-screws.6477/

And, another explanation.

http://www.xs650.com/threads/nylon-screws.43874/

 

[pamcopete]

I did wire mine according to pamco pete's instructions. And, I do have problems following any of his instructions, I can't be the only one considering ALL of the CONFUSION when it comes to any of his instructions. Not that I'm not grateful for him sharing these mods, that's just how it is.

It would be a great service for another member to start from scratch and RE-WRITE some of (all of) those instructions for the TECH section.

Scott

Kanske kan du översätta Petes instruktioner till svenska? Rida. Njut av. Livet är simpelt. PamcoPete

 

[5twins]

The Windy Nation rectifier should have the connections clearly labeled on the side. Yes, it does matter what terminal gets ground and power .....

This explains the connections .....

The rotors are the same except for one important difference. The '80 and up rotors have a magnet embedded into them to trigger the ignition pick-up. So no, a '79 or older rotor won't work on the '80 and newer bikes if they still have the factory TCI electronic ignition. The ignition wouldn't function.

No, both of the new units don't have to be mounted together on the same plate (aluminum or steel), it's just that mounting options and space, especially if you still have the stock airboxes, is very limited. Mounting them together in the original location on the back of the frame down tube behind the engine is probably the easiest solution. If the airboxes are gone and you're running pods, that opens up many more mounting options. Just keep in mind that the battery box is rubber mounted so can't serve as a ground. If you mounted the Fiat regulator to it, you'd need to run a ground wire from the mount to the main frame somewhere.

 

[mrtwowheel]

Kanske kan du översätta Petes instruktioner till svenska? Rida. Njut av. Livet är simpelt. PamcoPete

Different people learn in different ways. Instructions that work for some people may not work for others. Instructors that are good for some people may not be good for others.

This is a good mod and should be done whether the previous components have failed or not failed.

The Fiat type regulator is very small and easy to place on the bike. There are some on ebay now from China, not ready to give them a try yet.

Scott

 

[650Skull]

I think the confusion around this whole issue is based on thinking this is a Nylon screw mod.......issue.........In fact the nylon screw thinking should be dismissed when considering buying an Automotive Regulator as a replacement for the factory one.................more on this in the last Paragraph #4

1; There is a direct link from the ignition system to the type of Automotive Regulator used in conjunction with the factory Alternator

2; Thinking should start with what ignition system is on my bike............Identifying this will help determine if the Regulator and Rectifier are separate parts, (points models), ...........or a combined solid state Reg/Rect, (Factory Electronic Ignition, TCI). ............

Yes there are aftermarket Solid State Reg/Rect for points models so in the event the bike has points and a S/S R/R then some research needs to be done to identify if the correct S/S R/R has been installed

3; Once the ignition has been established along with the alternator and if the Reg and Rect are separate or combined then the correct Automotive regulator can be bought............

4; If by chance your bike is a points model and you have access to a Solid State combined Reg/Rect from a factory TCI ignition and you want to fit this to the bike...............then and only then is the nylon screw modification needed/required

From 650Rider.com and if read properly then all of the right information is posted By Pamcopete with some input from Retiredgentleman.
http://650rider.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8476

 

[Superjet]

There are some on ebay now from China, not ready to give them a try yet.

Scott

Scott I have one in my bike for the past 3 months and is functioning as it should. I think it was $15 canadian. I would buy it again.

 

[mrtwowheel]

pamcopete, I take it all back, your instructions are better than some, and I did manage to convert one alternator and wire three bikes with your instructions. HEY, good enough. My Hondas are even thankful.

Scott

 

[Prisondawg]

Help me out, is this suppose to be the "sky blue" neutral switch ? It doesn't look very sky blue to me.

 

[5twins]

Yes, that's the neutral switch wire. You can tell by it's unique crimp and rubber boot. Yes, it isn't a very light blue at that section of wire but I think it is running through the rest of the harness up to the neutral light bulb.

 

[Prisondawg]

Yes, that's the neutral switch wire. You can tell by it's unique crimp and rubber boot. Yes, it isn't a very light blue at that section of wire but I think it is running through the rest of the harness up to the neutral light bulb.

They really are two different colors. Thanks for the help, I'm starting to fix all the corners I cut.

 

[Prisondawg]

While I'm into all the electronics, I want to switch up the fuses to a blade style fuse box, any recommendations as to which one to purchase, I'm worried about water resistants on some of the cheaper ones I'm seeing.

I also was wondering how necessary the safety relay is ?

 

[Superjet]

This is what I have and I like it. I dont have a safety relay in my build.

Opps inserted wrong link
https://www.amazon.ca/Systems-Blade...ea+4+blade&dpPl=1&dpID=517sU-uVCeL&ref=plSrch

 

[robinc]

I want to switch up the fuses to a blade style fuse box

Can't get much slicker than the job Jim did on his new 80SG fuse box.

 

[650Skull]

Every one says to throw away the Special fuse box......the fuse holders brake off or just get tired and loose connectivity..........here Vlad's rebuilds the Factory fuse box. links to where to get the parts required for about $10 and spares

Scroll down to post #27
http://www.xs650.com/threads/vlads-restoration-project-w-pics.34595/page-2

Safety relay stops the starter motor the instant the bike fires. ........If it is kick only then no problem...........But..........also on the specials it incorporates the relay so the headlight comes on when/after the bike starts. .........Specials Safety relays are for 2 systems. ..........Unless an on/off headlight switch is added the headlight will come on when the key is turned on, With the light on if using the starter motor it will be a big drain on the battery and if the battery is a fraction low then it could be ..........push me home baby

 

[Prisondawg]

here's my finished reg/rec. Still have to put the connectors on and hook it up.

 

[mrtwowheel]

Yep, RIGHT ON, that's the way to do it. Not because it is cheap, but because those are the best components that you can use. You could pay $150 for a reg/rec but it would not work as well as these. You're battery will have a longer, less stressful life, rotor too.

Scott

 

[5twins]

Many people (that don't know any better) do pay that, lol. Here's an aftermarket reg/rec unit the vendor charges $145 for .....

Does the regulator portion look familiar? It should .....

That vendor is laughing all the way to the bank, lol.

 

[Superjet]

Nice! Did mine the same way but not a clean looking. Will tidy my install come winter. It has been working like a charm since June or so.