Do we care about the enviroment !!! ????

Wordman said:
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I'm not so much worried about datacentre water use, but their power consumption and the stress it puts on the distribution network.
If somebody wants to build a datacentre, they should bloody well pay for the necessary upgrading of the supply network (and sourcing) and residents should not be paying extra on their bills for it.
 
Grimly said:
I'm not so much worried about datacentre water use, but their power consumption and the stress it puts on the distribution network.
If somebody wants to build a datacentre, they should bloody well pay for the necessary upgrading of the supply network (and sourcing) and residents should not be paying extra on their bills for it.
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Not only are they (usually) paying, some are building, or helping to fund, power plants (nuclear).
 
Wordman said:
Not only are they (usually) paying, some are building, or helping to fund, power plants (nuclear).
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Nuclear is far from “green” and I hate even saying “green” because it’s a propaganda buzzword.

Speaking of “green” “power plants”, anyone familiar with “The Emperor Wears No Clothes”
 
MikeyDeepXS said:
Nuclear is far from “green” and I hate even saying “green” because it’s a propaganda buzzword.

Speaking of “green” “power plants”, anyone familiar with “The Emperor Wears No Clothes”
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I didn't say anything about "green."

You typed that on a computer made in a country which still get nearly 90% of their power from fossil fuels (the vast majority being coal). In fact, China is the world’s biggest user and producer of coal, consuming more than half the world’s supply (source: CNN "US vs. China: How the world’s two biggest emitters stack up on climate")

You posted it on a system which demands data centers and which uses about 10% of the world's total electricity consumption (2021 figures, source: Physics World "Powering the Beast")

But the truth is, nothing is green.

Horses weren't green, gasoline isn't green, and neither are electric cars.

Even fusion won't be green.
 
Wordman said:
I didn't say anything about "green."

You typed that on a computer made in a country which still get nearly 90% of their power from fossil fuels (the vast majority being coal). In fact, China is the world’s biggest user and producer of coal, consuming more than half the world’s supply (source: CNN "US vs. China: How the world’s two biggest emitters stack up on climate")

You posted it on a system which demands data centers and which uses about 10% of the world's total electricity consumption (2021 figures, source: Physics World "Powering the Beast")

But the truth is, nothing is green.

Horses weren't green, gasoline isn't green, and neither are electric cars.

Even fusion won't be green.
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Green, is used as a, less than.

Figure of speech.

Here is what my AI reckons about the % of China's green energy production in relation to coal %. How it has reduced in the last few years.

And yes their consumption is rising as they bring the country into the modern era but the overall % being produced by coal is less.

IMG_20260702_171232.jpg
 
MikeyDeepXS said:
Anyone here watched “Plastic Wars” by PBS?

Recycling plastic seems to be a super environmental hoax.
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You mean like this? ;)

What can actually be recycled?

While most plastics are either not accepted or get lost in the recycling process, facilities are best equipped to process specific types:
  • PET (Plastic #1): Clear drinking water and soda bottles.
  • HDPE (Plastic #2): Natural bottles, milk jugs, and shampoo/detergent bottles.
Plastics numbered 3 through 7 (such as takeout containers, plastic bags, and coffee pods) are often collected by municipal programs but rarely make it to an actual recycling facility and usually end up incinerated or in a landfill.
 
Not exactly what I meant.
Sure there’s major confusion about the types of plastic resins, thats by design. Not to make plastic recycling terrible, it just is. The reason that the resin idenification triangle was chosen to look like the chasing arrows was to confuse people into thinking everything is recyclable.

Case in point #7 “other”
Or #3 PVC, anyone “recycling” pvc?



Really, I was talking more about plastics being collected then shipped overseas then burned or dumped into the ocean in massive quantities.

Or the The new “Advanced Recycling” hoax which to the best of my knowledge is just stockpiling trash open landfill style without any viable process to convert it to new materials efficiently. I’m pretty sure chemistry and physics says that can’t be done. Of course we can crack hydrocarbons, been doing it for a long time now, but there arent any magic catalysts that make cracking plastic resins more economical than cracking crude, or better for the environment.

I’m also talking about the reality that “recycling” plastic resins makes very little sense as long as we’re refining crude and extracting methane for fuel because those resins are essentially byproducts.

I’m also talking about the physics and chemistry that apply to thermoplastic “recycling” that is matter of fact downcycling because products made from melted “recycled” resins are inferior due to impurities, chemical degradation from heat/UV/ozone, and other factors.

Have you watched PBS’s Plastic Wars?


Wordman said:
You mean like this? ;)

What can actually be recycled?

While most plastics are either not accepted or get lost in the recycling process, facilities are best equipped to process specific types:
  • PET (Plastic #1): Clear drinking water and soda bottles.
  • HDPE (Plastic #2): Natural bottles, milk jugs, and shampoo/detergent bottles.
Plastics numbered 3 through 7 (such as takeout containers, plastic bags, and coffee pods) are often collected by municipal programs but rarely make it to an actual recycling facility and usually end up incinerated or in a landfill.
Click to expand...
 
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Wordman said:
You mean like this? ;)

What can actually be recycled?

While most plastics are either not accepted or get lost in the recycling process, facilities are best equipped to process specific types:
  • PET (Plastic #1): Clear drinking water and soda bottles.
  • HDPE (Plastic #2): Natural bottles, milk jugs, and shampoo/detergent bottles.
Plastics numbered 3 through 7 (such as takeout containers, plastic bags, and coffee pods) are often collected by municipal programs but rarely make it to an actual recycling facility and usually end up incinerated or in a landfill.
Click to expand...

You forgot #5 PolyPropylene

That is actually my favorite plastic.
 
MikeyDeepXS said:
Not exactly what I meant.
Sure there’s major confusion about the types of plastic resins, thats by design. Not to make plastic recycling terrible, it just is. The reason that the resin idenification triangle was chosen to look like the chasing arrows was to confuse people into thinking everything is recyclable.

Case in point #7 “other”
Or #3 PVC, anyone “recycling” pvc?



Really, I was talking more about plastics being collected then shipped overseas then burned or dumped into the ocean in massive quantities.

Or the The new “Advanced Recycling” hoax which to the best of my knowledge is just stockpiling trash open landfill style without any viable process to convert it to new materials efficiently. I’m pretty sure chemistry and physics says that can’t be done. Of course we can crack hydrocarbons, been doing it for a long time now, but there arent any magic catalysts that make cracking plastic resins more economical than cracking crude, or better for the environment.

I’m also talking about the reality that “recycling” plastic resins makes very little sense as long as we’re refining crude and extracting methane for fuel because those resins are essentially byproducts.

I’m also talking about the physics and chemistry that apply to thermoplastic “recycling” that is matter of fact downcycling because products made from melted “recycled” resins are inferior due to impurities, chemical degradation from heat/UV/ozone, and other factors.

Have you watched PBS’s Plastic Wars?
Click to expand...

Got it... I haven't seen that doc on recycling, but there have been others which were quite eye opening. I'll check that one out.
 
Guy said:
One solution to to help reduce the plastic waste, recycling problem would be to stop or greatly reduce the use of single use plastic products, cups, straws, plates plastic bags etc.
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Straws, I dunno, but all the rest? Yeah, we use way too much. But we're a throw away society. Watch battery goes bad? Throw the watch away. Everything is disposable. Think of all the things we used to repair we now just toss and buy another.
 
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