Electric Vehicles, Hybrids...Battery tech... Land Air and Sea. Let's See 'em.

Is the internal combustion engine doomed to history

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 25.6%

  • No

    Votes: 21 53.8%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 5 12.8%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 2 5.1%

  • ...er... what was the question again?

    Votes: 1 2.6%
  • Total voters
    39
The Chinese horde is coming?
AUTOS​
With Too Many EVs, Chinese Carmakers Look to Foreign Markets​
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Photo by Michael Förtsch via Unsplash​
Chinese EV makers are charging abroad.​
After a strong boom in electric vehicle sales among Chinese carmakers, the numbers have started to wane. Now, auto manufacturers that are producing more cars than they can sell are trying to regain that momentum overseas, The Wall Street Journal reported.​

These Babies Sell Themselves​

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In the past few years, Chinese automakers like BYD, MG, and NIO have sold millions of EVs — more than US and European manufacturers combined. However, sales don’t always translate to profit, to which too many Chinese automakers can attest. A bigger problem, though, was that much of that sales growth was driven heavily by government subsidies and support from large backers like Alibaba, Tencent, and in BYD’s case, $130 billion man Warren Buffett.​
While it allowed carmakers to expand capacity and pump out EVs at a blitzkrieg pace, government subsidies have declined and Chinese consumers are tightening their belts. To counteract the slowing demand in their homeland, the Chinese government is encouraging auto companies to look to foreign markets to fuel their growth:​
  • Earlier this month, China’s Ministry of Commerce established a set of guidelines to help local car companies navigate international trade rules and engage with foreign governments. Automakers are also being urged to set up R&D centers with partners abroad to build supply chains.
  • BYD, which began to outpace Tesla as the top global seller of EVs recently, has a bit of head start thanks to its factory in Uzbekistan and one in Thailand that’s expected to start deliveries in July. BYD plans to open factories in Brazil, Hungary, and possibly Mexico, the last of which might be able to export vehicles to the US. It also intends to buy ships to export cars to European markets.
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Running Scared: The European Union launched an anti-subsidies probe late last year against Chinese automakers, concerned that low-price imports could hurt local manufacturers like Volkswagen. BYD intends to sell 400,000 cars overseas this year, the WSJ reported, but it only exported a little over half that last year, and only 13,000 were delivered to the EU.​
In the US, where Chinese cars are scarce thanks to expensive tariffs, big automakers like Ford and General Motors are desperately trying to lower production costs and EV prices to compete with a possible flood of Chinese cars. With BYD’s cheapest car selling for about $12,000 in some markets, it's easy to see why other carmakers are starting to sweat.​
Written by Griffin Kelly​
 
gggGary said:
BYD, which began to outpace Tesla as the top global seller of EVs recently
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Yeah, I had recently read that BYD was going to begin importing here. I have not seen any comparisons to Tesla regarding performance , build quality or range. It would be interesting to see. I personally think that there would be a market here for an electric commuter car that is less whiz bang tech and more affordable. You know , something simple and basic that is reliable and has acceptable range.
But maybe that’s just me, I like small cars. 🚗
 
gggGary said:
Um the famous "race to the bottom" Chinese manufacturing QC and lithium battery management.... You ready to put that in YOUR attached garage?
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Nope! 😄 In my community I also see a lot of people parking their $70,000 Teslas outside too. I can only assume that it’s not because there’s not room in their garage. 🤔
 
Slightly off topic but a bit relevant.
Rang Toyota the other day to find out whats happened to our Camry Hybrid that we ordered in October 22 that we were told we will definitely have in 12 months. Well, its been 16 months so far and we are told it will now be 2 years. Something has gone wrong at Toyota - everybody else can supply cars except them. It looks like we will run into the problem ($$$$$) of a new model getting in the way. We had the sense to do this before our current car is likely to bite the dust, so there is no real hurry, but it gets frustrating.
There are plenty of other cars to buy but none that fit our needs like the Camry.
An interesting point - I was looking up some old magazine articles on our current car - 2006 Mitsibishi 380 - and it sold new for around $32,000 - our new Camry Hybrid is costing us around $42,000 - prices havent gone up as much as I thought in 18 years.
Patience Ray Patience.
 
LTGTR said:
Something has gone wrong at Toyota
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They knew more than any other maker what the market would want and spent the last 20 years building and developing a wide range of efficient, reliable
hybrids. Their "problem" is a near insatiable demand for them, especially plug in versions.
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stock price reflects a demand issue not a supply issue.
The other makers are now trying to layout a catch up hybrid plan.

:twocents: By the time the other makers get to where Toyota already is, the Battery range / charger build out problem will have improved to the point where many more buyers will be willing to go all electric. Though in cold, long distance drive markets all electric is still a far ways off.
When moving to new technology it's hard to overemphasize the reliable part of the equation.
Kind of like Apple; a seamless no hassle if expensive way to get the latest and greatest.
Allison is still driving the old Prius cuz all the gimcracks on the new one are intimidating. (for me too) I'm liking the adaptive cruise control with lane keeping. The menu driven dash board controls? not so much. I'll get there eventually.
 
gggGary said:
When moving to new technology it's hard to overemphasize the reliable part of the equation.
Kind of like Apple; a seamless no hassle if expensive way to get the latest and greatest.
Allison is still driving the old Prius cuz all the gimcracks on the new one are intimidating. (for me too) I'm liking the adaptive cruise control with lane keeping. The menu driven dash board controls? not so much. I'll get there eventually.
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Ha! I admit to being an Apple guy. They make technology easy to use and intuitive.
My new Hyundai also has all those built in safety features, which I like on one hand and find annoying at the same time. 😁 It beeps and squeaks at me too much “ Shut up! I know what I’m doing! “ 👴🏻
and the digital dash board….I thought , how bad can it be? Here’s the one I got, and I don’t really care for it.
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The next upgrade would’ve got me this, even though they’re just digital representations of gauges and not real, they are something that looks recognizable to me. I should’ve bumped it up to the next grade.
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FB post:
"Ford E Transit Owners
Thomas Bowden
Well it's official, there is a recall on the onboard charger that if you take your E-Transit to the dealer to do the rear camera recall, They will do the charger recall. This will reduce the charge capacity of the battery, and thus the range of the van to the equivalent of a 80% or 90% charge.
My opinion is that the truck's current limited range of 120 miles is forcing most owners to charge to 100%. Since Ford has a 100,000-mile warranty, and charging to 100% will degrade the battery, Ford is trying to keep from replacing a lot of batteries. But reducing the range will make my truck useless and negatively affect the resell value.
Should we look into a Class action lawsuit to stop this madness?"


Oops!
 
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gggGary said:
FB
Ford E Transit Owners
Thomas Bowden
Well it's official, there is a recall on the onboard charger that if you take your E-Transit to the dealer to do the rear camera recall, They will do the charger recall. This will reduce the charge capacity of the battery, and thus the range of the van to the equivalent of a 80% or 90% charge.
My opinion is that the truck's current limited range of 120 miles is forcing most owners to charge to 100%. Since Ford has a 100,000-mile warranty, and charging to 100% will degrade the battery, Ford is trying to keep from replacing a lot of batteries. But reducing the range will make my truck useless and negatively affect the resell value.
Should we look into a Class action lawsuit to stop this madness?

Oops!
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That is a design flaw worth compensation or replacement for sure!
Sell a product based on specs that you then roll back.
Your getting 10-20% less of the vehicle, I say 10-20% rebate.
Class Action I'm sure will happen.
 
Gary:

I'd suggest checking on the NHTSA website - and see if the US Govt has done any investigations and / or recieved a large number of complaints.

Pete
 
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