• It's time to vote for the bikes you want to see in the 2025 XS650 Calendar! Vote here!

Electric Vehicles, Hybrids...Battery tech... Land Air and Sea. Let's See 'em.

Is the internal combustion engine doomed to history

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 24.4%

  • No

    Votes: 23 56.1%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 5 12.2%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 2 4.9%

  • ...er... what was the question again?

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Total voters
    41
I hate to see this, Amazon has had some of their Rivian delivery vans catch fire in Salt Lake City and Houston. There is speculation that it could be heat related or charger related, as in both locations the vans caught fire while charging on a hot day.

https://apple.news/AxphlaHuhSOOXG-p32_PzAA

IMG_7340.jpeg

IMG_7341.jpeg
 
Mailman said:
I hate to see this, Amazon has had some of their Rivian delivery vans catch fire in Salt Lake City and Houston. There is speculation that it could be heat related or charger related, as in both locations the vans caught fire while charging on a hot day.

https://apple.news/AxphlaHuhSOOXG-p32_PzAA

View attachment 330140
View attachment 330139
Click to expand...

Battery fires in EV's and some Hybrid vehicles seem quite commonplace. Land Rovers and Porsche Tycan are burning up with regular reports on the news and internet; indeed I have posted a few on this thread myself. Is electrical EV really the future of transport; I'm beginning to doubt it. More money should go into Hydrogen fuel and biofuel development as well as alternative synthetic fuels. At least we could keep our beloved combustion engines going.
 
Adamc said:
Battery fires in EV's and some Hybrid vehicles seem quite commonplace
Click to expand...
I don’t know how common these fires actually are. I did ask a local fireman how they put them out. He said, “We don’t.”

I think that’s an issue. FedEx is also going to electric trucks.
 
Wisconsin sent EV us stickers for both the plug in and the "old" Prius.
KIMG6981.JPG
They are a heads up for emergency responders that there is a high voltage battery on board.

Shell is backing off on their Euro Biodiesel plant construction citing lack of demand (low selling price)

Tesla Sales in Reverse Gear For Second Straight Quarter
It’s official: Tesla is on a losing streak.
Elon Musk’s high-flying company said Tuesday that sales fell for the second straight quarter, marking its first back-to-back sales drops since 2012. But its stock still rose 10%. Sometimes all you have to be is not as bad as Wall Street feared.
Less is More (Than Expected)
Tesla has been downplaying expectations since early this year, when executives adopted the talking point that they are “between two major growth waves.” It’s a tacit acknowledgement that the Model 3, introduced in 2017, and Model Y, introduced in 2020, are hot new commodities no more. Earlier this year, the company announced plans to cut 10% of staff to shore up operating margins, which were squeezed by cuts to vehicle prices meant to fend off burgeoning competition from rival automakers in China and the US. Tuesday’s sales numbers, meanwhile, did enough to impress in the face of lowered expectations:
The company delivered 443,956 vehicles in the second quarter — while that’s 4.8% less than a year ago, it comfortably beat the FactSet consensus estimate of 436,000. Tesla also manufactured 410,831 electric vehicles in the quarter, or 14.3% less than a year ago — a positive sign, because it suggests the company is managing its unsold inventory to prevent buildup.
Tesla will report its full second-quarter results on July 23, but an arguably more important harbinger of the company’s future will take place on Aug. 8, when it plans to host a “Robotaxi day.” CEO Elon Musk claimed last month that Tesla, which has a $724 billion market cap, could one day be worth $30 trillion on the strength of robotics and artificial intelligence innovations — we’d like to see the robotaxi survive 10 minutes on the New Jersey Turnpike before placing any bets.
Little Trouble in Big China: Tesla maintained the crown of the world’s top-selling electric carmaker, but the race is tightening, and its prospects in the highly competitive Chinese market took a major dent Tuesday. Chinese rival BYD sold 426,039 electric vehicles worldwide in the second quarter, a 21% year-over-year increase, putting it within striking distance of being the top seller. Meanwhile, the China Passenger Car Association said sales of Tesla’s China-manufactured vehicles fell 24% year-over-year and 2.2% in June.
Written by Sean Craig
 
jetmechmarty said:
I don’t know how common these fires actually are. I did ask a local fireman how they put them out. He said, “We don’t.”

I think that’s an issue. FedEx is also going to electric trucks.
Click to expand...
They can't put the fires out using 'normal' methods by flooding with water or smothering to starve oxygen. As the batteries burn they create there own oxygen supply and therefore continue to burn regardless. Therefore the fire brigade boys just let em burn baby.
 
Could the Supreme court ruling in the Chevron case could have a meaningful affect on EV's. Any Gov't regulation involving EV's, even subsidies, could be challenged with decisions being put into the courts hands which can also mean long term studies and analysis by experts won't drive decisions. Be more of a case on whose yacht has the best caviar
 
Been thinking of smelling my own farts for a while and Priapisms are reasonably priced, plus they benefit from being reasonably cheaply road-taxed here.
This vid impressed me...

It more or less puts the spectre of an unreliable CVT transmission to rest, as it's not CVT in the way I envisioned it, and by many accounts battery life is a lot better than I thought - and they can be replaced if I decide the car is worth hanging on to.
What I need to find out now, is how well corrosion resistance stands up in 2008 models ('cos that's about the size of the pot) and if there are any particular weaknesses long term. It's a given that one I can afford will have 200K/km on it.
 
Grimly said:
Been thinking of smelling my own farts for a while and Priapisms are reasonably priced, plus they benefit from being reasonably cheaply road-taxed here.
This vid impressed me...

It more or less puts the spectre of an unreliable CVT transmission to rest, as it's not CVT in the way I envisioned it, and by many accounts battery life is a lot better than I thought - and they can be replaced if I decide the car is worth hanging on to.
What I need to find out now, is how well corrosion resistance stands up in 2008 models ('cos that's about the size of the pot) and if there are any particular weaknesses long term. It's a given that one I can afford will have 200K/km on it.
Click to expand...

Due to wife's use case we recently traded the Prius prime (50 MPG when in gas mode and roughly 50% all electric miles) for an AWD Rav4 hybrid (not prime :(), It'll get 40MPG at 70MPH and we're seeing 46 MPG in local use. I nearly got a low miles 2023 Rav4 Prime but I had a tough time swallowing the $8K price differential above the hybrid.
so for the first time in 15 years no Prius in the driveway.
Already installed, a hitch on the Rav4,
KIMG7476.JPG
it's rated to tow 1000 lbs no trailer brakes, 3500! lbs with brakes.
did a 600 mile round trip with the little trailer.
KIMG7563.JPG
40+MPG, trailer empty and 34ish MPG with motorcycle wind drag ~70MPH. (wind direction favored the outbound, empty trailer MPG?)
Better numbers than our Prius V would get.
Ease of getting in out of the taller Rav4 and greater cargo space, ground clearance, trailer towing, factors in the change.
Forum rumor; non hybrid rav4 CVT is not as reliable as the hybrid transaxle.
Rav4 is due for a 6th generation, available late 2025
rav4 generation/years info: https://www.cars.com/research/toyota-rav4/

When I get a new vehicle I go around and under with spray corrosion protection (lanolin) The rav4 is VERY well plastic clad, protected underneath.
I recently installed a muffler on the 2012 Prius V and saw little corrosion anywhere. Wisconsin is a notorious salt, rust area.
If looking for a used vehicle a Prius V might be an alternative for the rav4. Do watch for head gasket issues on the V's 1.6 motor at 150 to 200K miles.
 

In the article below, a startup car company has a new battery design that can accept a charge in record time. It accomplishes this by controlling the heat generated during the charging process. Unfortunately ( for now ) they have to use a rather rare metal in the battery, but the technology looks promising.​

This electric car battery takes less than 5 minutes to charge​

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/01/cars/electric-car-battery-charge/index.html

IMG_7642.jpeg
 
Hi all:

This came up in my YouTube feed this morning and I think it is one of the clearest, best-researched, and most complete discussions of the EV market slowdown I have run across. I’ll be looking for this same author’s video on the poor resale value of electric vehicles - that is certainly a big problem too.


I’d say that a key message is that the problem isn’t with EVs themselves, but rather it’s with the charging of EVs. The author's tale of his sister’s issues finding a charger for a rented Tesla on her vacation to Cape Cod is certainly not unique. It’ll be a long day in May before I’d rent a car from Hertz based on that terrible experience. Our CBC News did a big report on the challenges of traveling with an EV and it was found that even if you can find a charger, they are often not working or cannot charge your specific car or whatever. With our huge road distances between towns and cities - this is a major problem.

A lot of people have asked me about battery swapping as a means of avoiding the need for charging on-road but frankly, I am not convinced that swapping is feasible. Some pundits think an EV battery is just a giant flashlight battery that you can pop in and out - but this is completely incorrect. EV traction motor batteries are extremely sensitive and complex electro-thermal systems that must be carefully matched to the vehicle and its prime mover (i.e. the controller and electric motor) and each new generation of EV models has its own unique battery format.

Just check out this CBC News story on a Nissan Leaf owner's problems. He is willing to pay the $8-9000 cost of a new battery for his Leaf because it is a fully functional car (except for the battery) but they cannot get a new battery for him - and that makes his car totally worthless because the battery for his specific year and model of Leaf is out of production and out of stock - globally.

Nissan Canada's suggested solution for him was - "buy a new Nissan Leaf and enjoy!" Thanks guys - I'm happy to spend $40K - rather than $8K to solve my problem. It would be like if each ICE vehicle required its own unique fuel: "Sorry sir, we are out of Ford F150 fuel - but we have lots of Hyundai Elantra and Honda Civic fuel....". How do you think that would work in the North American or European marketplace?

For that reason alone, battery swapping is certainly not workable until the OEMs standardize battery formats so that the “refueller / swappers” don’t have to stock literally hundreds of different batteries for the hundreds of different EV models each of which uses a unique battery format (length, width, height and connector layout, not to mention voltage and battery management system instrumentation wiring). Forum members may be aware that the J-4 bike OEMs (Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and Suzuki) have actually agreed on a set of four standardized battery formats for the coming generation of e-motorcycles <YUK!> - so this issue won't be such a nightmare for bikes....maybe.

The other thing is that while swapping may work in a temperate climate like Arizona or California, I sure wouldn’t want some pimply-faced kid sliding around under my car making electrical connections that will carry hundreds of amps - in a corrosive and wet environment like Harrow, Ontario Canada, the Scottish Borders UK - or Baraboo Wisconsin USA. Aside from the economics of swapping a high-value item for which the performance is highly subject to prior usage patterns and service conditions, the key fact is that each one of those high-power battery connections must be perfect to be functional and safe. If a high voltage connection is dirty, loose, corroded, etc. - it will have high resistance which will impair performance (i.e. driving range) and it could overheat causing a battery fire <not pretty at all>.

Advocates of battery swapping often compare it to swapping a 40 lb propane bottle for your barbecue but it is MUCH easier to safely and reliably connect a propane bottle than an EV battery and it is much easier to certify its condition prior to use.

Anyhow - I am not against EVs but they're not for me quite yet.

Cheers,

Pete
 
Last edited:
Raymond said:
Thank you, Pete, for a cogent appraisal of the situation. One UK youtuber has come to the conclusion that EVs are currently (sorry) a very expensive disposable item.
Click to expand...
Hi Raymond:

You are most welcome, but I'm not sure that view is quite correct for everyone. Nonetheless, right now, EVs are practical only for a segment of vehicle owners:
  • largely city dwellers
  • people who can reliably charge at each end of their journey (unless the journey is very short)
  • mainly temperate climates like the southern US (our cold temperatures degrade battery performance and cut driving range by as much as 30-50%)
  • people who plan to either lease the vehicle or keep it a fairly short time and don't mind getting hammered on resale value - OR - people who intend to drive it into the ground and then scrap the vehicle once it is obsolete or no longer functional.
On that last point, it is worth noting that the average age of a vehicle on North American roads is more than 11 years. So an 8-year-old EV with a failed battery is still a relatively "young" vehicle - but its residual value is extremely low because the cost of replacing the battery - if you can get one - is likely more than the car is actually worth.

Its too bad - because EVs are a ball to drive and while in use, they have very low operating costs plus, of course, they do help the planet (as long as you ignore the environmental costs of battery making and disposal and your electric power grid is green / clean like wind, solar or nuclear).

Hmmmmm.....that's a lotta caveats - I think I'll stick to my 2006 Miata with a 2.0 litre four-cylinder for a good while yet - or possibly get some sort of hybrid.

Pete
 
Since we ditched the Prius Prime I'm thinking about an electric for town use etc.
MB smart for two electrics tend to completely brick when the battery goes south. So can be had VERY cheap Might be some fun to figger out a work around.
Got a charger not being used....
If I get an electric, solar panel charging would be on the needed next list.
But I'm old and not terribly motivated.
 
MaxPete said:
For that reason alone, battery swapping is certainly not workable until the OEMs standardize battery formats....
Click to expand...
Even if that were the case I can't imagine how practical it would be.
Stand at a fuel station and count how many vehicle pass through per hour; that would equate to the minimum number of batteries they would need to charge. That's assuming that they can charge the number required and that the local power grid can meet the demand.
As you have suggested, the design would need to be standardised and easy to swap via an automated process. I doubt if motorists would be prepared to wait while they are manually changed?
IMO until we need to have have batteries that can be charged in a similar time it takes to refuel an IC powered car.

We also have the situation here in the UK where a) there aren't enough fast chargers and b) where we do have them it can cost twice as much to 'fill up' as it would cost and for an IC engine to cover the same distance.
Charging at home is a different matter where it can be significantly cheaper...IF you have a home charger. Those in apartments or where there isn't any off road parking are stuffed.

We are also being faced with the situation where not only do we have to buy a vehicle that is more expensive than its IC counterpart but the government is looking at ways to charge EV's to make up for the lost fuel revenue. What form this is to take has not been decided. Either way, it will be another disincentive to purchase.
Oh, and did I mention that IC and Hybrid vehicles costing over £40,000 will also have to pay an annual supplement of £410 (c. $550) for the first five years?
But don't worry, 'cos you have an older IC vehicle...yeh but you will be caught as councils introduce congestion charges (where the age of exempt vehicles will undoubtedly get younger and younger).

Call me cynical, but whatever you buy and run it seems you will be stuffed.
 
MaxPete said:
Anyhow - I am not against EVs but they're not for me quite yet.
Click to expand...
I'm the same, for all of the above, and more.
Which is why I'm looking seriously at the Prius and have been for over a year now.
It's only kinda EV, but enough to make a difference if I have to go into town and even some small towns in Ireland will eventually have ULEZs, so I want to be ready for that. I've since discovered that rebuilt EV batteries for the Prius are available cheaper than I thought, so If I get a good one it will be worth rejuvenatiing the thing for another couple of years.
Hybrid gets rid of range anxiety for me, too.
 
Back
Top