Electric Vehicles, Hybrids...Battery tech... Land Air and Sea. Let's See 'em.

Is the internal combustion engine doomed to history

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 25.6%

  • No

    Votes: 24 55.8%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 5 11.6%

  • Don't care

    Votes: 2 4.7%

  • ...er... what was the question again?

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Total voters
    43
Tuesday I was Meeting 2 Friends .for Lunch
was there early

So I Went over the street to the VOLVO dealer

One car there if I got it right the Price tag was 1.295 000 Sek --$ US 118,201.77
Large as a bus for a Football Team Big as I dont know what

looked online

Explore our electric vehicles
607 000 --> $ 55,404.23
449 000 --> $ 40,982.70
997 000 --> $ 91,001.67
625 000 --> $ 57,047.19

Weak Infrastructure charging .Uncertain used value
Bonkers

Rumors expensive repairs
Rumors scrap yards not taking them .Not much to sell and investments needed for the Fire hazard

Battery management

Lithium batteries are an important component in electric cars and must be handled safely. It is important that the scrapping company has the right equipment and protocols to take care of the battery. The battery can be reused or recycled responsibly.

There was ca 3 cars inside there at the dealer that had a red pain that also looked like primer Rust .. prevent Corrostabil

Rest was silver ,, Primer looking or Olive Primer Looking Or grey Primer Looking

Bonkers ..

Need smaller cars ..3 cylinder Volkswagen Beetle and So

It think it was Dick Cheney

" Lets get back to Reality "

1734546232396.png
 
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Jan_P said:
Tuesday I was Meeting 2 Friends .for Lunch
was there early

So I Went over the street to the VOLVO dealer

One car there if I got it right the Price tag was 1.295 000 Sek --$ US 118,201.77
Large as a bus for a Football Team Big as I dont know what

looked online

Explore our electric vehicles
607 000 --> $ 55,404.23
449 000 --> $ 40,982.70
997 000 --> $ 91,001.67
625 000 --> $ 57,047.19

Weak Infrastructure charging .Uncertain used value
Bonkers

Rumors expensive repairs
Rumors scrap yards not taking them .Not much to sell and investments needed for the Fire hazard

Battery management

Lithium batteries are an important component in electric cars and must be handled safely. It is important that the scrapping company has the right equipment and protocols to take care of the battery. The battery can be reused or recycled responsibly.

There was ca 3 cars inside there at the dealer that had a red pain that also looked like primer Rust .. prevent Corrostabil

Rest was silver ,, Primer looking or Olive Primer Looking Or grey Primer Looking

Bonkers ..

Need smaller cars ..3 cylinder Volkswagen Beetle and So

It think it was Dick Cheney

" Lets get back to Reality "

View attachment 341139
Click to expand...
Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here but I'm not sure of the point you are making...are you having a go at Volvo's product line? What about the offerings of other manufacturers?
Is it that you have heard rumours regarding certain aspects of EV's? Does what you have heard (where from?) translate into fact?
I take your point regarding charging infrastructure...but were IC engines any better served during their early days?

IMO we should accept that the technology is still developing and is still a long way from its zenith. To consign it to the bin is, perhaps, somewhat premature.
 
Max Midnight said:
Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here but I'm not sure of the point you are making...are you having a go at Volvo's product line? What about the offerings of other manufacturers?
Is it that you have heard rumours regarding certain aspects of EV's? Does what you have heard (where from?) translate into fact?
I take your point regarding charging infrastructure...but were IC engines any better served during their early days?

IMO we should accept that the technology is still developing and is still a long way from its zenith. To consign it to the bin is, perhaps, somewhat premature.
Click to expand...

It is difficult to look into the future there are always uncertain things look at Ukraine .. Fine plans .That did not materialize
Admittedly it is tentative
But being in the " Petrol head " scene I hear what people say .

As I Understand it no Electric vehicle sub 30 000 Euro exist -- No Manufacturer -- Nothing
What I hear the used ones are not attractive .for the risk of battery problems and expensive repairs .Can be hearsay and rumors
But that is what I hear

I dont see the Solution .. Most of my Friends just dont have the spare 30 000 Euro go get a New Electric And wont get the money
They barely have the 3000 euro for buying the Used Petrol driven car.

But those cars is out there ( Used petrols ) or has been The gas stations are there .Filling up is a question of minutes.
How ist that solved in Rush hours .A lot of cars perhaps needs charging at the same time. Remote places ... beaches in summer ?

Young people is at the risk not afford a car.
That is fine with the posh ladies in urbanized regions . What do they care if a poor sod must commute on a bus instead.
many hours extra. These dont care about poor people period .... but these can vote.

Here always existed rusted VOLVOS at cheap prices parts at the Salvage a Solution

The people that cannot afford by an Electric .. Will try to keep their old Petrol driven vehicles running as I see it 10 years at the least
political decisions can change that but the gap 30 000 --3000 is to big. The employers are more into lowering the wages

The Hybrids are in a better position as long as the Infrastructure is weak

Maybe it is possible to get the prices down but just maybe .. What happens in the transition will the petrol stations disappear
Going out of Business. here in Sweden a battery factory is on the verge going bankruptcy North volt

I am skeptical it will happen in the next 10 years I am not a market dogmatic thinker ..But it appears to be a TOP --DOWN project with good intentions
Pointing fingers more or less accusing those driving old cars being Polluters .. Evil Humans

If a new electric costs 30 000 . Not likely to get much cheaper .And the economy for the used electric ones is uncertain The gap is to large .. To get this rolling

AS with wage increases -- Later have a tendency to be never It is what I hear .But these people often knows what is actually going on
Even with petrol driven cars the Commuting can in some case be to expensive ..The Wife having a Couple of Hours in the Health care sector.
One hours drive one way Push that cost up .. The wife stays at home instead Cant afford to go to work.

Over the years there have been attempts with Diesel / Natural Gas / And Mixing in other fluids . Trying a while and then drop it
This is on a bigger scale .

Lets see what happens .If these 50 000 Euros electrics are impossible to sell used It can be game over for this also
Bare a small minority that can buy New and then scrap it Being to small population to sustain the infrastructure

Back to petrol again .. As before later can be never It the market comes into play Instead of the Politician I see smaller cars
with focus on emissions and recycling . That people can afford .As they looked well into the mid 70 ies
Volkswagen beetle and So maybe fiberglass body and chassis that never rust.
 
Jan_P said:
As I Understand it no Electric vehicle sub 30 000 Euro exist -- No Manufacturer -- Nothing
What I hear the used ones are not attractive .for the risk of battery problems and expensive repairs .Can be hearsay and rumours
But that is what I hear.
Click to expand...
Can't speak for Europe but there are some available around that price mark in the UK - Dacia Spring (no, me neither), Citroen C3, FIAT 500 Electric, BDS Dolphin.

Based on experience with laptops and other small battery powered devices I can understand where these rumours emanate but is there is basis in fact?
If the batteries were so bad then manufactures wouldn't offer extended warranties with their vehicles eg: Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Nissan and Renault cover the cells for 8 years and 100,000 miles, while Hyundai ups the mileage limit to 125,000.
Tesla has the same 8 year timeframe but a mileage limit of 150,000 on the Model S and Model X, 120,000 on the Model 3 Long Range and 100,000 on all other versions. And apart from Audi and Tesla, most include a maximum allowable capacity (between 70 and 75 percent) for the battery, which will trigger a replacement if it dips below this figure during the warranty period.
Jan_P said:
I don't see the Solution .. Most of my Friends just don't have the spare 30 000 Euro go get a New Electric And wont get the money
They barely have the 3000 euro for buying the Used Petrol driven car.
Click to expand...
I suspect that not many folk have the odd €30K in cash but there are other purchase options (HP and PCP) should they desire an EV.
Jan_P said:
But those cars is out there (Used petrol) or has been The gas stations are there. Filling up is a question of minutes.
How is that solved in Rush hours. A lot of cars perhaps needs charging at the same time. Remote places... beaches in summer?
Click to expand...
I think it is called forward planning? Those willing to change their mindset and adjust to the different requirements of powering an EV seem to be able to cope without much issue. Have a read of this.
Jan_P said:
Young people is at the risk not afford a car.
That is fine with the posh ladies in urbanised regions. What do they care if a poor sod must commute on a bus instead.
many hours extra. These don't care about poor people period....but these can vote.
Click to expand...
Young people (who can vote) also appear to care more about the environment than older generations. They appear to be more likely to back the reduction of the use of fossil fuels? Not sure how you square that circle as you can't have it both ways.
Jan_P said:
The people that cannot afford by an Electric will try to keep their old Petrol driven vehicles running as I see it 10 years at the least
political decisions can change that but the gap 30 000 --3000 is to big. The employers are more into lowering the wages.
Click to expand...
Nobody if forcing folk to by any new vehicle regardless of how it is powered. I suspect the habits and change cycles will remain much the same, those that prefer new, those who prefer nearly new or several years old are likely to continue as they always have.
Your price comparison of an EV for €30k to an old second hand car at €3k is, IMO, a spurious argument as you are trying to compare apples with (very old) oranges.
Jan_P said:
The Hybrids are in a better position as long as the Infrastructure is weak.
Click to expand...
Depends on your circumstances but I tend to agree. However, even in that market there is significant progress. My current vehicle Merc A250e has a summer range of 44 miles. My next and Audi A3 has 88 which means that I will be able to improve on the current 70% of my journeys on electric power which will not only benefit my pocket but also reduce my carbon footprint.
Jan_P said:
Maybe it is possible to get the prices down but just maybe. What happens in the transition will the petrol stations disappear
Going out of Business. Here in Sweden a battery factory is on the verge going bankruptcy, North volt

I am sceptical it will happen in the next 10 years I am not a market dogmatic thinker. But it appears to be a TOP --DOWN project with good intentions
Pointing fingers more or less accusing those driving old cars being Polluters. Evil Humans

If a new electric costs 30 000. Not likely to get much cheaper. And the economy for the used electric ones is uncertain. The gap is to large. To get this rolling

AS with wage increases -- Later have a tendency to be never. It is what I hear. But these people often knows what is actually going on
Even with petrol driven cars the Commuting can in some case be to expensive. The Wife having a Couple of Hours in the Health care sector.
One hours drive one way Push that cost up. The wife stays at home instead. Cant afford to go to work.

Over the years there have been attempts with Diesel / Natural Gas / And Mixing in other fluids. Trying a while and then drop it
This is on a bigger scale.

Lets see what happens. If these 50 000 Euros electrics are impossible to sell used It can be game over for this also
Bare a small minority that can buy New and then scrap it. Being to small population to sustain the infrastructure

Back to petrol again. As before later can be never It the market comes into play Instead of the Politician I see smaller cars with focus on emissions and recycling . That people can afford .As they looked well into the mid 70 ies
Volkswagen beetle and So maybe fiberglass body and chassis that never rust.
Click to expand...
Smaller cars - yes! That could be the solution, perhaps the answer is already with us?

Only time will tell if we are going down the right road but IMO the one thing we should all agree on is that to do nothing is not an option
:eek:
 
The green Fraud
the green fraud several hundred meters queue to charge Tesla in Malung

Malung is a place up in the mountain regions .Where people go over holidays .and Cabins in the Winter.

Now there was a warning for harsh weather Snowstorms and such .. Advised stay at home . Trains cancelled and so on Huge risk for getting stuck en route in a pile of Snow
The electrics needs power to keep some heat so those who are getting out .Which can be many since the cabins most likely have new people coming in

Cannot go out on the road without charged battery Should they stuck they need some power to keep some Heat . Dangerous Family in the car Kids
Kan die there .Before the Cellular Phones every year someone died .Less now but still happens Poor weather it is impossible rescue no helicopters and can take time to clear the roads

Not saying it is a deal breaker but there are problems still to solve


1736171596248.png





150 cars in line .. - 20 Celsius

1736172091772.png



- 20 minus and then they sit there with poor power and have three, four hours until they can charge. The kids are freezing and you can't keep the heat on either, says Jan Fridberg according to Aftonbladet



Edit - 20 Celsius is not extreme Cold Either When Worked construction The only time I was sent home was - 17 C and Hard Wind
Allowed to work on ... warmer than that. .
It can be twice that .. Admittedly Diesels might not run and petrol cars also struggle .
But news Reports like this sure is Gonna affect Decisions making. Buying a new vehicle Responsible actions ..
Putting a family in that situation ... Questions are gonna be raised ....Actions taken
 
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LOL

650Skull said:
The cold climate plays havoc with EV's range. Questions that come to mind with the 60%.
How many people leave with insufficient charge to get to the next station
How many don't take the loss of distance due to cold conditions into consideration.
How many dion't do their research on the next station in their trip.

Human error could b a major factor in the 60%, then that figure is used to discredit EV's in turn public backlash, and used for political purposes.

Should EV sales be pushed in such cold climates.???.... Be ok if it was for a week or two each year but that far north or south
Click to expand...
 
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