Electric Vehicles, Hybrids...Battery tech... Land Air and Sea. Let's See 'em.

Is the internal combustion engine doomed to history

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • No

    Votes: 12 46.2%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 3 11.5%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • ...er... what was the question again?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26

Jim

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They're filled with oil.
What?
they have a 20 year projected life span during which they barely make enough energy to pay for themselves
A University of Texas study says 5 to 6 yrs to profitability... and that included shipping from Spain.

One 2019 study from engineers at the University of Texas at Arlington factored in the wind speeds from a working wind farm in Texas with 200 turbines. It examined in detail the energy it took to move the turbine components from where they were made in Spain to the Lone Star Wind Farm near Abilene. It also measured the energy it took to get raw materials to the factories in Spain where manufacturing took place. The wind at the Lone Star Wind Farm varies and the researchers used that data to find the actual average wind speed through the year.
They calculated a turbine that lasts 20 years will reach a full energy payback in less than six years.
Link.
a typical unit makes 1 MW of electricity
The average is actually 2.75Mw with the larger ones giving about 10Mw. Link.

the composite blades are not recyclable get cut up and go into land fills


GE says they are. Not only recyclable, but reducing the carbon impact of making cement in the process.

The process will make wind turbines fully recyclable, while reducing carbon dioxide emissions from cement production by a net 27%, according to environmental impact analysis by Quantis U.S. The reprocessed blade has a net-positive environmental impact by replacing coal or other raw materials in the cement production process, according to GE. Link.
 

Max Midnight

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They're filled with oil. they have a 20 year projected life span during which they barely make enough energy to pay for themselves, a typical unit makes 1 MW of electricity under ideal conditions, a typical small 60 year old coal plant makes 500 MW all day long for most of the year, when decommissioned the composite blades are not recyclable get cut up and go into land fills

Whilst twenty years is generally given as the life span depending on operating conditions and levels of maintenance this can be extended to twenty five years or more.
Not sure where you get the information that suggests that they barely make enough energy to pay for themselves?
Payback will depend on many factors but if there was no return on investment then why would companies bother to invest...and no, it isn't purely down to subsidies. In fact in some parts of the world these are being phased out.
I'd also like to know where you get the figure of '1 MW of electricity under ideal conditions'? That comment is, IMO, without any data to back it up is at best completely meaningless and a worst a distortion. In fact the biggest turbine at the moment is rated at twelve MW.
You are also ignoring the any benefit for environmental payback through reduced CO2 emissions.

As for coal are you seriously suggesting that we continue to use this as a prime power source given the pollution and contribution to global warming that energy source makes?
When determining the cost of producing energy from coal you have to factor in the cost of fuel, any carbon taxes, operation and maintenance and capital, including planning and site work. There is also the decommissioning a coal fired plant which is not only costly and time consuming but you are still left with the contamination that is left behind.

If global warming is to be addressed and wind power is not the answer then perhaps you could suggest a viable alternative?
 

RC4MAN

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Look, unlike the vaccine thread I'm not looking to start a pissing contest here. Prior to 6 years ago I worked in the power generation industry for over 30 years. 7 years ago 1 MW was common, 2 MW for a large one per Siemens own literature. It's highly possible that since then they now have units that are capable of more output.
Most of the units now in service are the lower output
As for my opinion on your last question, Nuclear
 

Jim

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Baby's learning to walk....

An electric coach just completed a 1,700-mile (2,743-km) trip from Newark, California, to Seattle and back. The journey was a demonstration of battery-electric transport and was organized by the coach operator MTRWestern and ABC Companies, the US importer for Van Hool coaches.

What makes this trip noteworthy—some might even say amazing—is that it relied (only) on public fast chargers. The coach averaged 280 miles (450 km) between charging stops, with some stretches of over 300 miles (482 km).
Link.

Link.

They don't give hard numbers on passengers other than to say "some" were on board.
Like I say.... baby steps.


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Max Midnight

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Look, unlike the vaccine thread I'm not looking to start a pissing contest here. Prior to 6 years ago I worked in the power generation industry for over 30 years. 7 years ago 1 MW was common, 2 MW for a large one per Siemens own literature. It's highly possible that since then they now have units that are capable of more output.
Most of the units now in service are the lower output
As for my opinion on your last question, Nuclear
Neither am I but if you make comments that, to my reading at least, appears to promote coal generation over wind and other data which is out of date you shouldn't be surprised if what you say is questioned.
I don't disagree that nuclear has a role to play but that too has disadvantages; cost of setting up, maintaining and disposal of plant together with lead times to build.
In the UK Hinkley Point C will take some ten years from approval to completion. By the time we add the application process you may well double that time frame.

I think we need to try and have a balanced approach to power generation and whilst I don't think coal has a place, the development other forms should continue
 

Jim

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"GM seeks US approval to deploy self-driving car without a steering wheel." :yikes:

Link.

Cruise said its petition, filed together with parent company GM, "demonstrates how the Origin achieves safety objectives of existing standards and helps enable future AV [autonomous vehicle] regulations." The vehicles will be manufactured at GM's "Factory ZERO" in Michigan, Cruise's announcement said. "Production is expected to begin in late 2022 in Detroit at a GM factory with vehicles delivered in 2023, Cruise said Friday," according to Reuters.



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Mikey

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"GM seeks US approval to deploy self-driving car without a steering wheel." :yikes:

Link.

Cruise said its petition, filed together with parent company GM, "demonstrates how the Origin achieves safety objectives of existing standards and helps enable future AV [autonomous vehicle] regulations." The vehicles will be manufactured at GM's "Factory ZERO" in Michigan, Cruise's announcement said. "Production is expected to begin in late 2022 in Detroit at a GM factory with vehicles delivered in 2023, Cruise said Friday," according to Reuters.



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That would take some getting use to for me
WTH I'd go for it they wouldn't roll them out if they weren't safe and I assume it would be just on low speed inter city roads
 

kshansen

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That would take some getting use to for me
WTH I'd go for it they wouldn't roll them out if they weren't safe and I assume it would be just on low speed inter city roads
I'm just wondering who will be responsible for any accidents causing property damage or injuries?

Like what happens when there is a sudden snow storm that interferes with what ever sensors the vehicle uses. Will it be able to adjust for freezing conditions?

Or what happens if some kid chases a ball out into the street? I think if most here saw a soft ball rolling out from between two parked cars on a city street most would automatically hit the brakes just to be safe. Will the program for this vehicle have that built into it?
 

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The six stages for autonomous vehicles.

Whist some progress has been made along the stages I wonder how long (if ever?) it will take before we see a level six vehicle available for public use?

The drive towards autonomy has reaped benefits; my car not only has adaptive cruise control but will slow if getting too close to the car in front even with cruise control disconnected, it will steer for me if I start to wander out of my lane and it can even park the car for me...if only I could work out how to get it to do it! All these features are good and should go some way to protect other road users from me. :redface:

However, it strikes me that until the legal (who would be responsible in the event of an accident or failure) and moral issues are resolved e.g. to avoid an accident does the vehicle swerve into a crowd or steer towards a fast moving truck, we aren't going to see full autonomy any time soon.
It also depends on how much stuffing vehicles with this technology will cost the poor sods who buy the vehicles.
 

Jim

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Kinda sorta related.....
Neon gas is used to manufacture I/C chips. We're already experiencing a worldwide shortage of chips. It's about to get worse....
Ukraine supplies fully half the worlds needs of 99.9% pure neon gas for chip manufacturing. Link.


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Mikey

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Kinda sorta related.....
Neon gas is used to manufacture I/C chips. We're already experiencing a worldwide shortage of chips. It's about to get worse....
Ukraine supplies fully half the worlds needs of 99.9% pure neon gas for chip manufacturing. Link.


View attachment 208998
Who knew
 

Mailman

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I watched a well made video on YouTube today, this Is the first video in a series of a guy converting a vintage Honda into an electric motorcycle. The video is well made and only about eight and a half minutes long . It looks like an interesting engineering exercise. This guy also produced a series of videos chronicling a cross country trip he made on a Triumph twin that was a very good series.

 

Jim

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I watched a well made video on YouTube today, this Is the first video in a series of a guy converting a vintage Honda into an electric motorcycle. The video is well made and only about eight and a half minutes long . It looks like an interesting engineering exercise. This guy also produced a series of videos chronicling a cross country trip he made on a Triumph twin that was a very good series.

Subscribed. Should be fun to follow along.
 

Jim

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Volvo, Chargepoint, Starbucks to expand Seattle-Denver EV charging​

The pilot program will install DC fast chargers every 100 miles on the route.

Link.


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Mailman

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Volvo, Chargepoint, Starbucks to expand Seattle-Denver EV charging​

The pilot program will install DC fast chargers every 100 miles on the route.

Link.

Sounds like a win for Starbucks, naturally anyone charging their cars will want to wait inside and order drinks. ;)

Something I have tried to figure out , with some difficulty, is just how the prices compare between filling up your gas tank vs charging your electric car at a charging station. Most articles I’ve read want to talk about the cost of kilowatt hrs vs the price of gasoline, that’s fine for when you are charging your vehicle at home but when you’re away from home using a charging station, then naturally you are paying a fee for that service. The prices are hard to nail down because there are so many variables, charging stations ( like gas stations ) have different rates, also there are different levels of charge ( read faster and slower) available at different rates, and the size of your vehicle and the batteries. All impact what you will pay at a charging station.
 

toglhot

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I've always ridden bicycles, to work, for fun, for exercise, matter of fact I've even built bicycles and tricycles of the recumbent type, 12 all up. Unfortunately, my body objects to any form of exercise now: Neck, elbows, hips, wrists, fingers and particularly my one off lung all object very, very strongly. So, I bought a fold up electric bike a couple of weeks ago, how good are these things? I can now go for long, long rides without collapsing or having to swallow a box of Ibuprofen to recover.

I can put as much effort into it as I like, when I get tired I back off and let the electric motor take over. I introduced my wife to the electric bike as soon as we got it home, she was impressed and decided she wanted one too, so I'm giving her mine and tomorrow I'm picking up another. This one has a larger battery and so allows me to ride further without really trying at all. However, my rear end doesn't have very good suspension anymore so I searched around for a more comfortable seat. Look at the size of that thing, it's nearly as big as my big, fat arse.

Also,pictured is my last recumbent trike build. Every part of my body, except my bum, objects to this form of transport now, so now it just takes up space in the garage.

Now these electric bikes are classed as green, ie, they don't burn fossil fuels. Electric vehicles are becoming more and more popular based on their green credentials, but how green are they really?: One can purchase electric cars, motorbikes, pushies, gophers, golf carts and so on in pursuit of a greener planet, but has anyone ever given any thought to how the electricity to charge these vehicles is produced???
 

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Max Midnight

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...but has anyone ever given any thought to how the electricity to charge these vehicles is produced???

The question you should be asking is what is the whole life impact on energy use from obtaining the raw products, through manufacture, day to day use and the final disposal.

Some information here, here or for those that like a bit more data, here.
 

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My personal grocery getter, converted electric FZR600 finished putting it together sometime late last year, goes up 55MPH range is only around 9.5 miles with 6 12V AGM batteries in series for 72V. It is fully street legal with EV license plate. Charges using standard AC outlet.
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