Electric vs Kick start

The worst place for kick starting is in group of other bikes cuz once the noise level is high, the finnesse needed for perfect throttle placement nursing etc. is near impossible to gauge. If you are going to kick, conservative ignition settings and a tight maintenance schedule for points iggy are needed. Aside from my funny, I spent two years riding an XS1 and have Nortons. Like others said a high compression, hot cam 750 motor is out at the limping edge for kick starting but a stocker with the timing slightly retarded is no big deal. XSJohn long sang the praises of timing back a couple degrees, and he's right for the vast majority of riding. Not to mention; regular gas works fine with those settings too..........
 
I might as well add this here, I was going to do a separate post, but I’ve been complaining about my lazy electric starter on my ‘77 D , almost from the beginning. I took the cable off and cleaned up the post on the starter terminal , which was quite rusty, but it didn’t make a significant difference.
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I had lately been thinking of buying a new starter cable and pulling my starter motor off and disassembling it and polish up the stator and check the brushes etc. But I thought before I bit that bullet, I would try a heavier battery in it. The battery that I had in it was a couple of years old and in our extreme heat, that’s beginning to get old. So I decided to buy a Deka ETX15L, 220 CCA and 14AH, is a nice strong battery, and it has a lot of fans here on this site. It seems better made than the non name cheapos I’ve been buying.
C053B7CA-A567-416D-AECC-CBB3DAE0D517.jpeg5693E9D8-5111-4F21-A319-A3F79B189106.jpeg

So, how does it work you ask? Well by my unscientific seat of the pants, I’d say it works much better. This bike has never been an easy bike to start with the kick starter, I usually get tired of kicking it and just let my electric starter do it’s slow motion Ruh…ruh…ruh thing. Here is a short video of the first start after installing the new battery. Bike had been sitting for a couple of weeks and this was in the morning after a cold night,


Not only does it start better with the electric start, but a couple days ago I rolled it outside to go for a ride and usually in cold weather, I kick it over a few times with the key off just to get some oil and gas moving, but today , after my second key off kick, I switched on the key and gave it one more prod and it roared to life! I’m beginning to believe that my old battery which would start my warm bike up just fine, just didn’t have enough cranking power to start a cold motor with any authority. :thumbsup:
 
Shorei lithium ion battery vs Deka AGM

This is an interesting video on YouTube, you don’t have to watch it unless you’re bored, but the gist of it was this guy tested a Shorei lithium battery head to head against a Deka AGM battery. It was in a modern Aprilla motorcycle with dual halogen headlights. With the key on and lights on ( a load stress test ) and he kept testing the voltage at 5 minute intervals and started the bike at 5 minute intervals. The lithium battery failed after something like 15 minutes and 5 starts and would not recover. The Deka held up for 40 minutes before it wouldn’t start, and then with the key off for 5 minutes the battery began to build voltage back and was able to restart the bike. And it kept building voltage the longer it was shut off. I did not realize that lithium didn’t have the same endurance and once it’s dead….it’s dead.
 
Shorei lithium ion battery vs Deka AGM

This is an interesting video on YouTube, you don’t have to watch it unless you’re bored, but the gist of it was this guy tested a Shorei lithium battery head to head against a Deka AGM battery. It was in a modern Aprilla motorcycle with dual halogen headlights. With the key on and lights on ( a load stress test ) and he kept testing the voltage at 5 minute intervals and started the bike at 5 minute intervals. The lithium battery failed after something like 15 minutes and 5 starts and would not recover. The Deka held up for 40 minutes before it wouldn’t start, and then with the key off for 5 minutes the battery began to build voltage back and was able to restart the bike. And it kept building voltage the longer it was shut off. I did not realize that lithium didn’t have the same endurance and once it’s dead….it’s dead.
Nice bike MM. That's a bit of a bummer about the lithium ion battery. I'm planning a street tracker with elec. start and was hoping to use an L.I. batt as i would be able to put it in the tail section as they are smaller, much lighter and you can turn them in any direction. Did I mention, nice bike?
 
Nice bike MM. That's a bit of a bummer about the lithium ion battery. I'm planning a street tracker with elec. start and was hoping to use an L.I. batt as i would be able to put it in the tail section as they are smaller, much lighter and you can turn them in any direction. Did I mention, nice bike?

Thanks! I wouldn’t let that video discourage you from buying a lithium battery, I only posted that because

A: I thought it was interesting and,
B: I was surprised at how durable the Deka was

Lithium batteries have their purpose such as the ones you stated, they pack a powerful punch in a small package, and they are not sensitive to position. As long as your charging system is working they should be just fine. After watching that video, I would only be cautious of cranking and cranking on a difficult to start bike.
 
Thanks! I wouldn’t let that video discourage you from buying a lithium battery, I only posted that because

A: I thought it was interesting and,
B: I was surprised at how durable the Deka was

Lithium batteries have their purpose such as the ones you stated, they pack a powerful punch in a small package, and they are not sensitive to position. As long as your charging system is working they should be just fine. After watching that video, I would only be cautious of cranking and cranking on a difficult to start bike.
I appreciate your input. Thankfully (or not) that decision is a ways off. I'm still in the parts collecting and planning stages.
 
Nice bike MM. That's a bit of a bummer about the lithium ion battery. I'm planning a street tracker with elec. start and was hoping to use an L.I. batt as i would be able to put it in the tail section as they are smaller, much lighter and you can turn them in any direction. Did I mention, nice bike?
Lowbrow Customs did a video about LI batteries. It’s just a different animal and has some advantages as well as disadvantages. For what I have and do, AGM is good for me.

Lowdown on lithium
 
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I might as well add this here, I was going to do a separate post, but I’ve been complaining about my lazy electric starter on my ‘77 D , almost from the beginning. I took the cable off and cleaned up the post on the starter terminal , which was quite rusty, but it didn’t make a significant difference.
View attachment 209872View attachment 209873

I had lately been thinking of buying a new starter cable and pulling my starter motor off and disassembling it and polish up the stator and check the brushes etc. But I thought before I bit that bullet, I would try a heavier battery in it. The battery that I had in it was a couple of years old and in our extreme heat, that’s beginning to get old. So I decided to buy a Deka ETX15L, 220 CCA and 14AH, is a nice strong battery, and it has a lot of fans here on this site. It seems better made than the non name cheapos I’ve been buying.
View attachment 209871View attachment 209870

So, how does it work you ask? Well by my unscientific seat of the pants, I’d say it works much better. This bike has never been an easy bike to start with the kick starter, I usually get tired of kicking it and just let my electric starter do it’s slow motion Ruh…ruh…ruh thing. Here is a short video of the first start after installing the new battery. Bike had been sitting for a couple of weeks and this was in the morning after a cold night,


Not only does it start better with the electric start, but a couple days ago I rolled it outside to go for a ride and usually in cold weather, I kick it over a few times with the key off just to get some oil and gas moving, but today , after my second key off kick, I switched on the key and gave it one more prod and it roared to life! I’m beginning to believe that my old battery which would start my warm bike up just fine, just didn’t have enough cranking power to start a cold motor with any authority. :thumbsup:
Great looking bike!
 
Growing up on 650 Brit twins, I found bringing it up to TDC then kicking it into life never resulted in kickbacks. But I'm old now so kicking the TX is beyond me, thank goodness for electric starters.
 
Last week, riding through the small Borders town of Coldstream, had to stop at pedestrian lights on the main street. Due to my carelessness, Miss November stalled when I came to pull away. Now the e-start is so useless I never use it. Starts first kink anyway if you follow the procedure - depress the lever till you reach compression, add weight and slowly push through till it eases, then you reach a second bump of compression, bring the lever back up to top of its stroke. Now you make the one long kick. This works for me provided I don't rush the steps.

Hmmm. Not easy to keep composure in the middle of a busy high street. As I said on another thread, if yer gonna make a public spectacle of yourself, at least do it in public! After one, two failed kicks, paddled the bike towards the gutter to let the cars, vans, busses go past. One lady on the pavement (sidewalk in US) asked if I was having a problem - I managed not to answer. Jeez, kick starting a reluctant bike in traffic is not a good time to start asking me stoopid questions . . .

And of course as soon as I followed the procedure, the engine roared into life. Didn't stall it a second time.
 
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I removed the entire starter motor and internal gearing when I stripped the motor. I also have a great electronic ignition system that gives a fat spark giving easy kick starting first time every time .
 
Last week, riding through the small Borders town of Coldstream, had to stop at pedestrian lights on the main street. Due to my carelessness, Miss November stalled when I came to pull away. Now the e-start is so useless I never use it. Starts first kink anyway if you follow the procedure - depress the lever till you reach compression, add weight and slowly push through till it eases, then you reach a second bump of compression, bring the lever back up to top of its stroke. Now you make the one long kick. This works for me provided I don't rush the steps.

Hmmm. Not easy to keep composure in the middle of a bust high street. As I said on another thread, if yer gonna make a public spectacle of yourself, at least do it in public! After one, two failed kicks, paddled the bike towards the gutter to let the cars, vans, busses go past. One lady on the pavement (sidewalk in US) asked if I was having a problem - I managed not to answer. Jeez, kick starting a reluctant bike in traffic is not a good time to start asking me stoopid questions . . .

And of course as soon as I followed the procedure, the engine roared into life. Didn't stall it a second time.

The rare occasion for why I like the E start.
The aggravation of stalling in the first place is individual.........when it doesn't start on a couple of kicks that aggravation factor now expands to encompass others (impatiently) waiting for you to get her going or get out of the way. Other than that it's kick, which I love to do, especially when there's some modern bike and its riders near by.
Thinking back to an old Triumph 500 I had. That thing would beat the hell out of the inside of my knee..... if this xs was like that I'd be pushing the button all the time.
 
The rare occasion for why I like the E start.
Fully agreed, but

. . . the e-start is so useless I never use it . . .
If I press the button, it goes into a slow kerchunk, kerchunk and doesn't always, doesn't usually in fact, start the engine. Maybe I need to take a look at the starter motor, wiring, brushes, etcetera?

I don't mind looking like an idiot but I hate adding to other people's aggravation. If I stall in traffic, got to make an effort to get a grip or flaming bike will never start.
 
If the bike HAS an E-start I use it.
The 70 I'm riding with early carbs and maybe not fully sorted has an annoying habit of ocassionally missing a fire and it quits. I'm REALLY good at getting it in second and bump starting if I have ANY rolling momentum left. Otherwise this one's a pretty easy kick, usually don't even have to jump up, the left boot can stay on the ground.
 
I ruthlessly extracted all the electric start parts from my first 650 Special and had no problems using the kick starter at all.
I even heated up the crankcases and punched out the shaft that the starter pinion runs on to save that last bit of weight.
But I was 43 when I did that, still relatively young and fit.
Now I'm 62, my knees joints sometimes play up,
and Yamaha's flawed electric starter is looking more attractive all the time.
So buying a XS1B earlier this year possibly wasn't the most sensible decision.
I've got enough cycle parts to build up another XS1B rolling chassis, but that one might just get an electric starter.
 
I do my fair share of kicking when the weather is colder. First start of the day when it's cold out seems to be easier with the kicker. The batteries on these aren't real big so don't have much reserve for sustained cranking with the starter. On my '83, I was cold starting with the kicker pretty much all the time for a while there. It had a cold starting issue, only firing on one cylinder at first, then the other kicking in maybe 10 seconds or so later. I figured it was a choke issue but couldn't be sure given all the other things I'd changed (coil, retarded timing, safety relays elimination). But this season, I've been swapping on different carb sets I refurbed over the winter to test them out. So far, on the two sets I've tried, cold starting is easy with the electric starter, and it fires on both cylinders as well. So, that pretty much verifies my suspicions about the original carbs, they have a choke issue.
 
A PMA makes starting with the button easier: PMAs deliver around 14.4v from idle, stock alternators deliver approximately zip at idle and not much until the revs rise. Working on the various mods and stop, starting the engine all the time resulted in a flat battery. Since I changed to the PMA I haven't had a problem.
 
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